6 ms·

"But that’s just the planned schedule" Why won't it match the real schedule?

bowenli 12y ago
Caltrain is often behind schedule. Trains have break down or hit cars. It's a huge pain for daily Caltrain commuters. See: https://twitter.com/Caltrainstatus https://twitter.com/Caltrainstatus
- ak217 12y ago
  Among the things Caltrain has to contend with (aside from old equipment prone to breaking) are several dozen at grade crossings and freight train traffic on the same line (!)
  - bdamm 12y ago
    Fortunately the freight traffic is mostly after commute hours. Imagine what will happen with those so-called "high-speed" trains coming through!
    - guard-of-terra 12y ago
      Aren't you supposed to have separate high-speed track for high-speed trains?
  - jarek 12y ago
    While I feel for the grade crossings, freight traffic does not necessarily prevent good service. To give one example, North London Line of the London Overground has freight trains in between every-15-minutes service outside peak hours.
- digitalchaos 12y ago
  This is just the exceptional delays. People have given up reporting the "normal" delays we are now seeing every day due to overcrowding of the trains. The overcrowding slows down the onboarding/offboarding of trains by a lot. Another crowdsourced caltrain twitter account is https://twitter.com/caltrain https://twitter.com/caltrain You can see some of the more granular delays there. All these crowdsourced status accounts should be proof that caltrain SHOULD publish the raw data for us to use.
  - markcerqueira 12y ago
    Even aside from major issues like hitting cars or people, delays are not "exceptional" when it comes to Caltrain -- it is the norm. An exception is Caltrain arriving on time.
britta 12y ago
Every day on Caltrain includes unexpected delays, and it's interesting to look at how those delays affect the system. Check out the linked visualization of Boston-area trains: http://mbtaviz.github.io/ http://mbtaviz.github.io/ - a single day had two major train problems. Caltrain also runs extra trains for special events such as baseball games. Those are planned, but not on the regular schedule.
- guard-of-terra 12y ago
  Maybe they should be fixing that instead of providing raw data API? Or at least before. Totally doable I should say.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Awesome! Get a gig with Carltrian and try to eliminate those unexpected delays.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    Many of Caltrain's problems are systematic, such as lots of at-grade crossings and mega-rich fucks in Atherton.
    - guard-of-terra 12y ago
      Just curious how "mega-rich fucks in Atherton" prevent railway from functioning?
      - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
        NIMBYs preventing HSR, which in turn jeopardizes the funding course for Caltrain electrification?
      - kordless 12y ago
        My advice is to never ask someone who is making blaming statements a question regarding the blaming statement.
superuser2 12y ago
Because reality never matches plans like that. For starters, there is track maintenance, variable loading/unloading time, momentary delays or speed reductions in order to maintain separation when there are a lot of trains running at the same time, and the simple fact that drivers are not necessarily hitting exactly the same acceleration and deceleration curves every single time. By the end of the day, you're going to be more than a few minutes off from how you started. Nonstop long-distance rail service can exactly match its schedule because there are relatively few places for entropy to creep in - you just hold a constant speed across miles and miles of track that you pretty much have to yourself. A commuter rail system is much more complex and there is much more room for entropy.
- snogglethorpe 12y ago
  It's certainly not trivial to closely stick to a schedule (e.g. 95% of trains within a minute or two of scheduled times), but it's obviously possible for an urban railway to do so, because many do, often with far more aggressive schedules and higher volumes than Caltrain has. Of course, many American systems are operating at a pretty severe disadvantage, being hamstrung by poor equipment and infrastructure, a lack of funding, understaffing, a hostile political environment, and even pervasive cultural attitudes that dismiss railroads as being something worth investing in. I suppose given all that, it's a wonder they do as well as they do... But still, I think it's important to never forget: it's absolutely possible to do much better.
  - superuser2 12y ago
    The point is that it doesn't matter. Why should a transportation authority move heaven and earth to satisfy some moralistic concern about keeping exactly to schedules? You don't use CTA (Chicago transit) based on schedules; you go to your stop, read the board with accurate realtime predictions, and wait for a train to show up. It doesn't matter whether the schedule has anything to do with reality, just that you don't have to wait too long. If you'd prefer not to spend too much time on the platform, then you can check your phone, which is accessing the realtime prediction feed anyway, to figure out when you should head to the station. No part of normal usage of CTA depends in any way on the preset schedule, so spending money to keep to the schedule would be waste. Not only is it a Hard Problem, it's one that can be worked around very easily by providing realtime train location and prediction data.

Caltrain is often behind schedule. Trains have break down or hit cars. It's a huge pain for daily Caltrain commuters. See: https://twitter.com/Caltrainstatus https://twitter.com/Caltrainstatus

ak217 12y ago
Among the things Caltrain has to contend with (aside from old equipment prone to breaking) are several dozen at grade crossings and freight train traffic on the same line (!)
- bdamm 12y ago
  Fortunately the freight traffic is mostly after commute hours. Imagine what will happen with those so-called "high-speed" trains coming through!
  - guard-of-terra 12y ago
    Aren't you supposed to have separate high-speed track for high-speed trains?
- jarek 12y ago
  While I feel for the grade crossings, freight traffic does not necessarily prevent good service. To give one example, North London Line of the London Overground has freight trains in between every-15-minutes service outside peak hours.
digitalchaos 12y ago
This is just the exceptional delays. People have given up reporting the "normal" delays we are now seeing every day due to overcrowding of the trains. The overcrowding slows down the onboarding/offboarding of trains by a lot. Another crowdsourced caltrain twitter account is https://twitter.com/caltrain https://twitter.com/caltrain You can see some of the more granular delays there. All these crowdsourced status accounts should be proof that caltrain SHOULD publish the raw data for us to use.
- markcerqueira 12y ago
  Even aside from major issues like hitting cars or people, delays are not "exceptional" when it comes to Caltrain -- it is the norm. An exception is Caltrain arriving on time.

britta 12y ago

Every day on Caltrain includes unexpected delays, and it's interesting to look at how those delays affect the system. Check out the linked visualization of Boston-area trains: http://mbtaviz.github.io/ http://mbtaviz.github.io/ - a single day had two major train problems. Caltrain also runs extra trains for special events such as baseball games. Those are planned, but not on the regular schedule.

guard-of-terra 12y ago
Maybe they should be fixing that instead of providing raw data API? Or at least before. Totally doable I should say.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Awesome! Get a gig with Carltrian and try to eliminate those unexpected delays.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  Many of Caltrain's problems are systematic, such as lots of at-grade crossings and mega-rich fucks in Atherton.
  - guard-of-terra 12y ago
    Just curious how "mega-rich fucks in Atherton" prevent railway from functioning?
    - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
      NIMBYs preventing HSR, which in turn jeopardizes the funding course for Caltrain electrification?
    - kordless 12y ago
      My advice is to never ask someone who is making blaming statements a question regarding the blaming statement.

superuser2 12y ago

Because reality never matches plans like that. For starters, there is track maintenance, variable loading/unloading time, momentary delays or speed reductions in order to maintain separation when there are a lot of trains running at the same time, and the simple fact that drivers are not necessarily hitting exactly the same acceleration and deceleration curves every single time. By the end of the day, you're going to be more than a few minutes off from how you started. Nonstop long-distance rail service can exactly match its schedule because there are relatively few places for entropy to creep in - you just hold a constant speed across miles and miles of track that you pretty much have to yourself. A commuter rail system is much more complex and there is much more room for entropy.

snogglethorpe 12y ago
It's certainly not trivial to closely stick to a schedule (e.g. 95% of trains within a minute or two of scheduled times), but it's obviously possible for an urban railway to do so, because many do, often with far more aggressive schedules and higher volumes than Caltrain has. Of course, many American systems are operating at a pretty severe disadvantage, being hamstrung by poor equipment and infrastructure, a lack of funding, understaffing, a hostile political environment, and even pervasive cultural attitudes that dismiss railroads as being something worth investing in. I suppose given all that, it's a wonder they do as well as they do... But still, I think it's important to never forget: it's absolutely possible to do much better.
- superuser2 12y ago
  The point is that it doesn't matter. Why should a transportation authority move heaven and earth to satisfy some moralistic concern about keeping exactly to schedules? You don't use CTA (Chicago transit) based on schedules; you go to your stop, read the board with accurate realtime predictions, and wait for a train to show up. It doesn't matter whether the schedule has anything to do with reality, just that you don't have to wait too long. If you'd prefer not to spend too much time on the platform, then you can check your phone, which is accessing the realtime prediction feed anyway, to figure out when you should head to the station. No part of normal usage of CTA depends in any way on the preset schedule, so spending money to keep to the schedule would be waste. Not only is it a Hard Problem, it's one that can be worked around very easily by providing realtime train location and prediction data.