6 ms·

Taxis are nearly worthless in SF. I've called them many times and they only show up half the time, and that's if they are open and serving your area. There's no

by lnanek2 12y ago

Taxis are nearly worthless in SF. I've called them many times and they only show up half the time, and that's if they are open and serving your area. There's no penalty for them if they pickup someone else on the way to pick you up. I had to call 4 different numbers on a trip to Redwood city once. Sometimes they don't answer and sometimes they have no one in the area. I've never managed to hail one off the street as I do in NYC. I'm happy if all the Taxi companies die because they aren't providing good service. Uber and clones let you tap a couple times on an app, know instantly without asking anyone if there are cars in the area because you see them on the map, and then watch the cab come to you on the map. If the driver has trouble finding you they call you. Then at the end payment is all automatic, you just get out.

Xylakant 12y ago
So why can't we let Uber disrupt the SF market while still sticking to regulations in germany. The market and the problems of the market are obviously different. The most annoying thing about Uber for me is that they try to shoehorn a solution that fits large US cities on a market that's a bad fit. There's an app that does the same as Uber just for regular cabs. It's such a better market fit, Uber could have done the same, but no, that would be boring, they need to DISRUPT!
- stdgy 12y ago
  That app doesn't do the same thing as Uber, though. Uber's variable pricing model and liquid supply(that is, drivers who are encouraged or discouraged to participate based on current demand) encourages fleet sizes that will correctly meet usage. Really, it's an attempt to algorithmically reach an optimal solution for the given marketplace.
  - Xylakant 12y ago
    Ubers attempt may or may not be a good attempt at solving the problem of maximizing market efficiency, however it operates under the assumption that we want to optimize for market efficiency. The current system treats cabs like a utility and ensures fair access for everyone, a property that Ubers algorithm does not account for. It maximizes availability and access for the wealthier among us, a property that's at least in germany not as important as in the US. Bad market fit, as I said. MyTaxi operates whithin the framework of the current system and retains its properties while adding value and efficiency. It's obviously not as efficient from a market perspective, but that's a feature. Now a system that combines the desired properties of the old system with better efficiency is certainly thinkable and desirable, but Uber is not that system, at least not in it's current incarnation.
    - ulfw 12y ago
      Well it mostly maximizes financial returns (for the drivers and the company) by enabling up to 5x higher prices at 'surge' times. How would you feel if your taxi driver told you: "oh sorry Sir - you want to drive home? Today that'll be 5 times as much as usual. We are kinda busy, ya know". Unthinkable for taxis. Accepting for the 'disruptor'. All but very rich people would rather wait a few minutes longer to get a taxi than to pay up to 5x as much as usual.
      - mvid 12y ago
        Those same people can wait a few minutes longer for the surge pricing to go down.
ulfw 12y ago
I very much agree - having lived in SF for years myself. But you contradict your own point a bit by admitting that in NYC you easily can hail a cab off the street. So it's really not a global problem (as we are discussing Germany here) at all. It's a problem in some localities, especially in San Francisco. And Uber solved that problem. For it's local market. The thing is - why would it have to 'disrupt' markets that don't really need disruption or solve problems in markets where those don't really exist? Yet with it's enormous funding and hence market power it can take over markets around the globe, where the dude trying to make a living with his 5-cab taxi company or the student driving his one cab on his own can never even remotely compete.
- oh_sigh 12y ago
  You can only street hail a cab in NYC if you are in certain select portions of manhattan, and it isn't cab rush hour or cab switch over hour. Good luck hailing a cab in the middle of queens at any time of the day.
  - scarmig 12y ago
    Also key point: some groups of people--namely, white people and rich-looking people--are much more likely to be able to hail a cab. That isn't an issue with Uber/Lyft, so far as I can tell.
  - modfodder 12y ago
    I've hailed cabs in Queens. I live in Greenpoint and there are times that hailing a cab is quicker than waiting for an UberX, especially now that the green cabs are becoming ubiquitous. Cab switch over hour sucks, but I've also been in a busy parts of Manhattan with plenty of Uber cars showing on the app yet can't get an Uber car to my location. I've also noticed a drastic decline in the state of UberX vehicles in the past few months (I assumer from their aggressive recruiting effort). Used to be every UberX that picked me up was very clean and typically nicer cars (occasionally getting picked up by Range Rovers or Town Cars). Now quite a few of the cars are messier/dirtier than any cab I've ever been in. I'll continue to use Uber and UberX when convenient, but I've cut back quite a bit because the drop in quality.
crucialfelix 12y ago
And in Germany it's absolutely nothing like that. The cars are nice (usually Mercedes or BMW), the drivers are always friendly, for years and years we've been able to use an app to get a car in minutes. This is in large part because the city enforces it. So what's to disrupt ?
- ulfw 12y ago
  Exactly. A week ago I was having lunch at Munich airport waiting for my flight out. It was right where the taxi queue is - so I had a good view on what kind of vehicle is coming to pick people up. The VAST majority were nice, new, clean-looking E-Class Mercedes. Well. It they weren't black. So I guess that's the only difference. And the price.
  - crucialfelix 12y ago
    at 7am outside the club there are 12 taxis waiting for people to come out.
    - ulfw 12y ago
      Das sollte reichen

by lnanek2 12y ago

Xylakant 12y ago

So why can't we let Uber disrupt the SF market while still sticking to regulations in germany. The market and the problems of the market are obviously different. The most annoying thing about Uber for me is that they try to shoehorn a solution that fits large US cities on a market that's a bad fit. There's an app that does the same as Uber just for regular cabs. It's such a better market fit, Uber could have done the same, but no, that would be boring, they need to DISRUPT!

stdgy 12y ago
That app doesn't do the same thing as Uber, though. Uber's variable pricing model and liquid supply(that is, drivers who are encouraged or discouraged to participate based on current demand) encourages fleet sizes that will correctly meet usage. Really, it's an attempt to algorithmically reach an optimal solution for the given marketplace.
- Xylakant 12y ago
  Ubers attempt may or may not be a good attempt at solving the problem of maximizing market efficiency, however it operates under the assumption that we want to optimize for market efficiency. The current system treats cabs like a utility and ensures fair access for everyone, a property that Ubers algorithm does not account for. It maximizes availability and access for the wealthier among us, a property that's at least in germany not as important as in the US. Bad market fit, as I said. MyTaxi operates whithin the framework of the current system and retains its properties while adding value and efficiency. It's obviously not as efficient from a market perspective, but that's a feature. Now a system that combines the desired properties of the old system with better efficiency is certainly thinkable and desirable, but Uber is not that system, at least not in it's current incarnation.
  - ulfw 12y ago
    Well it mostly maximizes financial returns (for the drivers and the company) by enabling up to 5x higher prices at 'surge' times. How would you feel if your taxi driver told you: "oh sorry Sir - you want to drive home? Today that'll be 5 times as much as usual. We are kinda busy, ya know". Unthinkable for taxis. Accepting for the 'disruptor'. All but very rich people would rather wait a few minutes longer to get a taxi than to pay up to 5x as much as usual.
    - mvid 12y ago
      Those same people can wait a few minutes longer for the surge pricing to go down.

ulfw 12y ago

I very much agree - having lived in SF for years myself. But you contradict your own point a bit by admitting that in NYC you easily can hail a cab off the street. So it's really not a global problem (as we are discussing Germany here) at all. It's a problem in some localities, especially in San Francisco. And Uber solved that problem. For it's local market. The thing is - why would it have to 'disrupt' markets that don't really need disruption or solve problems in markets where those don't really exist? Yet with it's enormous funding and hence market power it can take over markets around the globe, where the dude trying to make a living with his 5-cab taxi company or the student driving his one cab on his own can never even remotely compete.

oh_sigh 12y ago
You can only street hail a cab in NYC if you are in certain select portions of manhattan, and it isn't cab rush hour or cab switch over hour. Good luck hailing a cab in the middle of queens at any time of the day.
- scarmig 12y ago
  Also key point: some groups of people--namely, white people and rich-looking people--are much more likely to be able to hail a cab. That isn't an issue with Uber/Lyft, so far as I can tell.
- modfodder 12y ago
  I've hailed cabs in Queens. I live in Greenpoint and there are times that hailing a cab is quicker than waiting for an UberX, especially now that the green cabs are becoming ubiquitous. Cab switch over hour sucks, but I've also been in a busy parts of Manhattan with plenty of Uber cars showing on the app yet can't get an Uber car to my location. I've also noticed a drastic decline in the state of UberX vehicles in the past few months (I assumer from their aggressive recruiting effort). Used to be every UberX that picked me up was very clean and typically nicer cars (occasionally getting picked up by Range Rovers or Town Cars). Now quite a few of the cars are messier/dirtier than any cab I've ever been in. I'll continue to use Uber and UberX when convenient, but I've cut back quite a bit because the drop in quality.

crucialfelix 12y ago

And in Germany it's absolutely nothing like that. The cars are nice (usually Mercedes or BMW), the drivers are always friendly, for years and years we've been able to use an app to get a car in minutes. This is in large part because the city enforces it. So what's to disrupt ?

ulfw 12y ago
Exactly. A week ago I was having lunch at Munich airport waiting for my flight out. It was right where the taxi queue is - so I had a good view on what kind of vehicle is coming to pick people up. The VAST majority were nice, new, clean-looking E-Class Mercedes. Well. It they weren't black. So I guess that's the only difference. And the price.
- crucialfelix 12y ago
  at 7am outside the club there are 12 taxis waiting for people to come out.
  - ulfw 12y ago
    Das sollte reichen