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> there's still a lesson in it for every startup founder - developers are necessary and important to your success so being nice (especially if the relationship

> there's still a lesson in it for every startup founder - developers are necessary and important to your success so being nice (especially if the relationship isn't going well) is a Good Idea. If a founder is only being nice to someone because it's a good idea and in their interest, they are an asshole. It's not a lesson you should need to teach anyone.

onion2k 12y ago
The lesson is that it's hard to find good developers. More generally, it's quite hard to find good <anythings>. People assume that available talent fits some sort of bell curve, with lots of 'average' people out there, but really it's more like an inverse square curve - there's a lot more people at the bottom end than the top. When you find the good ones you're nice to them because it's in everyone's interest.
- TomGullen 12y ago
  > When you find the good ones you're nice to them because it's in everyone's interest. Why do you have to differentiate being nice to people based on their abilities in any way at all? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point?
  - VLM 12y ago
    Maybe its a "when you don't have much left, whats left is more important". Like the discussion of employee talent vs qty graph shape, there exists a similar graph of employer quality vs qty of some shape. And if you know as an employer you're at a very low point of that graph, unable to execute, unable to meet deadlines, unable to pay contracts in full, all you may really have left is nice personal charisma, making it all the more crucial. You can behave like IBM or Google if you're IBM or Google. Little startup, maybe not. If all you've got left is the ability to be nice because everything else is lost, then being nice is becomes more important than at Accenture or insert any other large company. Its similar to the concept of "grace under fire" which used to mean something other than a sitcom or a martial arts TV show.
  - onion2k 12y ago
    You should be as nice as you can to everyone, but pragmatically speaking you can't. There isn't enough time, money, or energy available. There are a good reasons to prioritise certain people though - I was suggesting that people who will have an impact on the startup industry are such people.
    - TomGullen 12y ago
      > You should be as nice as you can to everyone, but pragmatically speaking you can't. There isn't enough time, money, or energy available. Being nice to someone isn't the sum of all time, money and energy expended on someone. It's just treating them with respect and dignity when your path crosses with theirs.
klawed 12y ago
>It's not a lesson you should need to teach anyone. Perhaps most of us (the non-assholes?) learn this at such a young age that we don't even remember learning it. But I do believe, because I've seen it happen and done it myself, to varying degrees, that people CAN learn this later in life and change bad behavior (even if it's initially for superficial reasons like a desire to see a venture succeed).
- TomGullen 12y ago
  Best to teach people to not be assholes with empathy, not through furthering of their own personal goals and ambitions.
ScottBurson 12y ago
There's being nice, which -- you're right -- everyone should do, and then there's going beyond ordinary courtesy to outright generosity. I think onion2k's point is that startups should try to do the latter.

onion2k 12y ago

The lesson is that it's hard to find good developers. More generally, it's quite hard to find good <anythings>. People assume that available talent fits some sort of bell curve, with lots of 'average' people out there, but really it's more like an inverse square curve - there's a lot more people at the bottom end than the top. When you find the good ones you're nice to them because it's in everyone's interest.

TomGullen 12y ago
> When you find the good ones you're nice to them because it's in everyone's interest. Why do you have to differentiate being nice to people based on their abilities in any way at all? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point?
- VLM 12y ago
  Maybe its a "when you don't have much left, whats left is more important". Like the discussion of employee talent vs qty graph shape, there exists a similar graph of employer quality vs qty of some shape. And if you know as an employer you're at a very low point of that graph, unable to execute, unable to meet deadlines, unable to pay contracts in full, all you may really have left is nice personal charisma, making it all the more crucial. You can behave like IBM or Google if you're IBM or Google. Little startup, maybe not. If all you've got left is the ability to be nice because everything else is lost, then being nice is becomes more important than at Accenture or insert any other large company. Its similar to the concept of "grace under fire" which used to mean something other than a sitcom or a martial arts TV show.
- onion2k 12y ago
  You should be as nice as you can to everyone, but pragmatically speaking you can't. There isn't enough time, money, or energy available. There are a good reasons to prioritise certain people though - I was suggesting that people who will have an impact on the startup industry are such people.
  - TomGullen 12y ago
    > You should be as nice as you can to everyone, but pragmatically speaking you can't. There isn't enough time, money, or energy available. Being nice to someone isn't the sum of all time, money and energy expended on someone. It's just treating them with respect and dignity when your path crosses with theirs.

klawed 12y ago

>It's not a lesson you should need to teach anyone. Perhaps most of us (the non-assholes?) learn this at such a young age that we don't even remember learning it. But I do believe, because I've seen it happen and done it myself, to varying degrees, that people CAN learn this later in life and change bad behavior (even if it's initially for superficial reasons like a desire to see a venture succeed).

TomGullen 12y ago
Best to teach people to not be assholes with empathy, not through furthering of their own personal goals and ambitions.

ScottBurson 12y ago

There's being nice, which -- you're right -- everyone should do, and then there's going beyond ordinary courtesy to outright generosity. I think onion2k's point is that startups should try to do the latter.