4 ms·

It's not about legislating competition. It's about Uber avoiding regulations (that the taxi coops already implement): insurance for passengers, insurance for c

by pgeorgi 12y ago

It's not about legislating competition. It's about Uber avoiding regulations (that the taxi coops already implement): insurance for passengers, insurance for commercial car use, car checkups every year instead of every second (like for private cars), yearly health check for the driver. That's essentially it, and as soon as Uber follows the rules, they can operate freely. They can organize it themselves (with employed drivers) or require their freelance drivers to do so. If their business model doesn't allow for that, their business model is flawed, and the German society has no obligation to bear Uber's costs just so they can feel "disruptive". [edit: it's somewhat more involved given that the court refers to PBefG, which as a whole needs some creative interpretation to allow for Uber to work, eg. running things as "car rental with driver" (which requires that customers don't state where they want to drive to beforehand). Still, Uber tries to work around any and all regulations, and it's no surprise that this won't be tolerated, and for good reason.]

yoodenvranx 12y ago
There is also the thing that cabs in Germany always _have_ to provide service, regardless of vacation, weather and so on. A private might decide to operate only at those times of the day with a lot of potential customers but that is not possible for official cab companies. The same goes for heavy rain and snow and so on.
- _pmf_ 12y ago
  > There is also the thing that cabs in Germany always _have_ to provide service, regardless of vacation, weather and so on. A private might decide to operate only at those times of the day with a lot of potential customers but that is not possible for official cab companies. In my experience as a German waiting for a taxi after midnight in a suburban area (but with a major road going through), this is a merely theoretical construct. I've called 3 taxi providers in the rough area; the result was a brisk 1.5 hour walk home because they did not seem all to interested in dispatching a driver to that location at that time. I might have a theoretical legal handle on this behavior, but I doubt this has ever been successfully challenged in court (since the providers can always weasel out by claiming the did not have and free drivers at this moment).
  - Xylakant 12y ago
    You don't have to challenge this in court. There's a regulation authority that you can report the case to. That's unlikely to help in an individual case, but if there's multiple cases it will trigger a reaction.
    - wooter 12y ago
      whereas a negative review for a driver has an immediate, measurable effect. when can we throw out this old BS 'regulation authority' mentality
      - Xylakant 12y ago
        Who are you going to write the negative review to if no driver decides to pick you up? All of them that didn't show up? On what grounds? No Uber driver is required to provide service to any area at any time, whereas at least under the current german regulation someone is, namely the owners of the taxi license(s) for that area.
        wooter 12y ago
        you have clearly never used Uber.
zo1 12y ago
"That's essentially it, and as soon as Uber follows the rules, they can operate freely." The legislation is perhaps not about stifling competition or anything. But it has the end result of reducing competition by raising the barriers to entry. Not only that, but it actively prevents competition (e.g. low-end providers) by making a whole segment of the market illegal. It's just the nature of regulation being universal to the country as a whole. i.e. it doesn't allow people to make their own judgements about what safety level they want based on their willingness to pay/not pay for it. In essence boiling down to "you get the extra safety, even if you can't actually use the service because the extra safety bumped up the cost"
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Try calling yourself an engineer in Germany and see how well that goes. That's also a 'barrier to entry', you have to study and prove that you're capable by passing a bunch of exams. How unfair! Some regulation is good, depending on the field. Public transportation is in my opinion one of those fields (and engineering another). Uber could fairly easily comply with these laws but it would cut into their profits and that is the reason why they have chosen to ignore the law and to cut their drivers loose the moment something happens (such as when a driver is involved in an accident).
- Tomte 12y ago
  You've understood it! We Germans want this "market" to be illegal. Just like erecting skyscrapers that cannot withstand a summer breeze or storing nuclear waste on a city landfill. If Americans want to do it differently, be my guest. Yes, you're more focused on individual freedom than the rest of the world. Fine with me. But maybe you could try to understand that Germans are very safety-oriented. And maybe you could just accept that instead of telling us that we're not doing things like America and therefore we're wrong.
  - zo1 12y ago
    "You've understood it! We Germans want this "market" to be illegal." Not all Germans, seeing as people are actually using Uber in Germany. That's the point I was trying to make. Tyranny of the majority, I suppose, unfortunate, but apparently "the best we got". Side note: I'm not actually American. Please don't stereotype and make assumptions based on opinion/nationality, even if it is a good one such as "focused on individual freedom" and "Germans are very safety-oriented", etc.
pjc50 12y ago
yearly health check for the driver The other rules are plausible, but what on earth is this about?
- DominikR 12y ago
  Would you want to get into a cab where the driver had his last health checkup 30 years ago? (especially eyesight) Here, it is not sufficient for a driver just to believe he is capable of doing the job, the state requires that he proves his capability and therefore guarantees every passenger that he is capable.
- DanBC 12y ago
  There are plenty of illnesses that require a driver to temporarily hand in their driving licence. A yearly health check will look for signs of those illnesses. Examples might be poorly controlled diabetes; epilepsy; sleep apnea; etc.
- agos 12y ago
  Other than the possibilities others have already stated, a health check for drivers can include a drug test.

by pgeorgi 12y ago

yoodenvranx 12y ago

There is also the thing that cabs in Germany always _have_ to provide service, regardless of vacation, weather and so on. A private might decide to operate only at those times of the day with a lot of potential customers but that is not possible for official cab companies. The same goes for heavy rain and snow and so on.

_pmf_ 12y ago
> There is also the thing that cabs in Germany always _have_ to provide service, regardless of vacation, weather and so on. A private might decide to operate only at those times of the day with a lot of potential customers but that is not possible for official cab companies. In my experience as a German waiting for a taxi after midnight in a suburban area (but with a major road going through), this is a merely theoretical construct. I've called 3 taxi providers in the rough area; the result was a brisk 1.5 hour walk home because they did not seem all to interested in dispatching a driver to that location at that time. I might have a theoretical legal handle on this behavior, but I doubt this has ever been successfully challenged in court (since the providers can always weasel out by claiming the did not have and free drivers at this moment).
- Xylakant 12y ago
  You don't have to challenge this in court. There's a regulation authority that you can report the case to. That's unlikely to help in an individual case, but if there's multiple cases it will trigger a reaction.
  - wooter 12y ago
    whereas a negative review for a driver has an immediate, measurable effect. when can we throw out this old BS 'regulation authority' mentality
    - Xylakant 12y ago
      Who are you going to write the negative review to if no driver decides to pick you up? All of them that didn't show up? On what grounds? No Uber driver is required to provide service to any area at any time, whereas at least under the current german regulation someone is, namely the owners of the taxi license(s) for that area.
      - wooter 12y ago
        you have clearly never used Uber.

zo1 12y ago

"That's essentially it, and as soon as Uber follows the rules, they can operate freely." The legislation is perhaps not about stifling competition or anything. But it has the end result of reducing competition by raising the barriers to entry. Not only that, but it actively prevents competition (e.g. low-end providers) by making a whole segment of the market illegal. It's just the nature of regulation being universal to the country as a whole. i.e. it doesn't allow people to make their own judgements about what safety level they want based on their willingness to pay/not pay for it. In essence boiling down to "you get the extra safety, even if you can't actually use the service because the extra safety bumped up the cost"

jacquesm 12y ago
Try calling yourself an engineer in Germany and see how well that goes. That's also a 'barrier to entry', you have to study and prove that you're capable by passing a bunch of exams. How unfair! Some regulation is good, depending on the field. Public transportation is in my opinion one of those fields (and engineering another). Uber could fairly easily comply with these laws but it would cut into their profits and that is the reason why they have chosen to ignore the law and to cut their drivers loose the moment something happens (such as when a driver is involved in an accident).
Tomte 12y ago
You've understood it! We Germans want this "market" to be illegal. Just like erecting skyscrapers that cannot withstand a summer breeze or storing nuclear waste on a city landfill. If Americans want to do it differently, be my guest. Yes, you're more focused on individual freedom than the rest of the world. Fine with me. But maybe you could try to understand that Germans are very safety-oriented. And maybe you could just accept that instead of telling us that we're not doing things like America and therefore we're wrong.
- zo1 12y ago
  "You've understood it! We Germans want this "market" to be illegal." Not all Germans, seeing as people are actually using Uber in Germany. That's the point I was trying to make. Tyranny of the majority, I suppose, unfortunate, but apparently "the best we got". Side note: I'm not actually American. Please don't stereotype and make assumptions based on opinion/nationality, even if it is a good one such as "focused on individual freedom" and "Germans are very safety-oriented", etc.

pjc50 12y ago

yearly health check for the driver The other rules are plausible, but what on earth is this about?

DominikR 12y ago
Would you want to get into a cab where the driver had his last health checkup 30 years ago? (especially eyesight) Here, it is not sufficient for a driver just to believe he is capable of doing the job, the state requires that he proves his capability and therefore guarantees every passenger that he is capable.
DanBC 12y ago
There are plenty of illnesses that require a driver to temporarily hand in their driving licence. A yearly health check will look for signs of those illnesses. Examples might be poorly controlled diabetes; epilepsy; sleep apnea; etc.
agos 12y ago
Other than the possibilities others have already stated, a health check for drivers can include a drug test.