5 ms·

"I've noticed the "you must use browser X, Y, or Z" trend become more prevalent over the years..." I believe what you are actually seeing is the opposite of "D

"I've noticed the "you must use browser X, Y, or Z" trend become more prevalent over the years..." I believe what you are actually seeing is the opposite of "Don't use IE". Instead they are saying "Use anything but IE" (best viewed in Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera). And that's good advice.

drivingmenuts 12y ago
I've adopted the "I don't care if you use IE" mentality. I'm on OS X - if a browser doesn't run there, to hell with them. I'm not wasting the money to buy an OS I can't stand just to test a browser. I'm also not wasting time having to reinstall a VM every 30 days for the same reason. When MS makes it painless to run IE on a Mac, then I'll actively test against it. I might not try to actively break it, but I'm not going to worry much. And, thanks to Node-Webkit, anything that's critical can be wrapped up in an app.
- sigmaml 12y ago
  And, in the same breath, could you also tell me which sites/applications you develop? That will help me avoid them! This is precisely the kind of developer arrogance that I advise against in my sessions. Catering to a segment of population, or otherwise, should be a carefully-considered `business' decision. If you are making them based on your preference for OS X (or whatever) and your laziness to install a VM, you are actively inflicting harm on your business.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Good to you. I also don't test Safari.
- WorldWideWayne 12y ago
  At least all you'd have to do is "buy an OS". I'd have to buy a whole computer to use an OS that I can't stand in order to test stuff on a Mac. (But that's really living in the past. These days we have BrowserStack.)
vonklaus 12y ago
tbh the guys who are building the new IE did a reddit AMA a week or so ago. The new IE seems really great and those guys seem smart and receptive to the needs of web-devs and users. The problem, which google is trying to address, is that I doubt the majority share of computers running ie are running the newest most updated version. However, ceterus paribas, your point is well taken.
- icantthinkofone 12y ago
  The new IE is better than the old IE but being better than crap is still crap. IE can't hold a candle to the other browsers despite what Microsoft tells you. Known, provable, verifiable.
  - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
    In the past IE beat the pants off of Netscape and basically invented "Web 2.0" with Microsoft's introduction of XMLHttpRequest. Nowadays IE starts faster and uses less memory than Chrome and has just as much CSS compliance. There are few parts of the HTML5 "standard" that IE doesn't supports. So, what exactly are you talking about? What does "hold a candle" to mean to you? Here are some charts of IE not holding a candle to other browsers - http://blog.mid.as/2013/11/13/best-web-browser-internet-explorer-11-firefox-25-opera-17-safari-5/ http://blog.mid.as/2013/11/13/best-web-browser-internet-expl... Maybe you can provide some of your own links to explain just what it is that you're talking about because I don't think anyone has a clue.
    - icantthinkofone 12y ago
      If you think IE has "just as much compliance" as Chrome, then you don't know browsers and can leave now. First, you can try http://css3test.com http://css3test.com, then you can peruse http://caniuse.com/ http://caniuse.com/ When you're done with those, try http://html5test.com http://html5test.com but come back for more.

drivingmenuts 12y ago

I've adopted the "I don't care if you use IE" mentality. I'm on OS X - if a browser doesn't run there, to hell with them. I'm not wasting the money to buy an OS I can't stand just to test a browser. I'm also not wasting time having to reinstall a VM every 30 days for the same reason. When MS makes it painless to run IE on a Mac, then I'll actively test against it. I might not try to actively break it, but I'm not going to worry much. And, thanks to Node-Webkit, anything that's critical can be wrapped up in an app.

sigmaml 12y ago
And, in the same breath, could you also tell me which sites/applications you develop? That will help me avoid them! This is precisely the kind of developer arrogance that I advise against in my sessions. Catering to a segment of population, or otherwise, should be a carefully-considered `business' decision. If you are making them based on your preference for OS X (or whatever) and your laziness to install a VM, you are actively inflicting harm on your business.
pjmlp 12y ago
Good to you. I also don't test Safari.
WorldWideWayne 12y ago
At least all you'd have to do is "buy an OS". I'd have to buy a whole computer to use an OS that I can't stand in order to test stuff on a Mac. (But that's really living in the past. These days we have BrowserStack.)

vonklaus 12y ago

tbh the guys who are building the new IE did a reddit AMA a week or so ago. The new IE seems really great and those guys seem smart and receptive to the needs of web-devs and users. The problem, which google is trying to address, is that I doubt the majority share of computers running ie are running the newest most updated version. However, ceterus paribas, your point is well taken.

icantthinkofone 12y ago
The new IE is better than the old IE but being better than crap is still crap. IE can't hold a candle to the other browsers despite what Microsoft tells you. Known, provable, verifiable.
- WorldWideWayne 12y ago
  In the past IE beat the pants off of Netscape and basically invented "Web 2.0" with Microsoft's introduction of XMLHttpRequest. Nowadays IE starts faster and uses less memory than Chrome and has just as much CSS compliance. There are few parts of the HTML5 "standard" that IE doesn't supports. So, what exactly are you talking about? What does "hold a candle" to mean to you? Here are some charts of IE not holding a candle to other browsers - http://blog.mid.as/2013/11/13/best-web-browser-internet-explorer-11-firefox-25-opera-17-safari-5/ http://blog.mid.as/2013/11/13/best-web-browser-internet-expl... Maybe you can provide some of your own links to explain just what it is that you're talking about because I don't think anyone has a clue.
  - icantthinkofone 12y ago
    If you think IE has "just as much compliance" as Chrome, then you don't know browsers and can leave now. First, you can try http://css3test.com http://css3test.com, then you can peruse http://caniuse.com/ http://caniuse.com/ When you're done with those, try http://html5test.com http://html5test.com but come back for more.