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Considering the importance of not crashing, both literally and figuratively, I can understand the need for that heavy of a software process. Isn't this par for

Considering the importance of not crashing, both literally and figuratively, I can understand the need for that heavy of a software process. Isn't this par for the course in high CMMI [1] [2] organizations? I don't really know much about this side of engineering, but I find it fascinating. Thanks for sharing the anecdote with us. :) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_Maturity_Model_Integration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_Maturity_Model_Integ... [2] http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2011-10-26-Boeing-Huntsville-Site-Achieves-CMMI-Level-5 http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2011-10-26-Boeing-Huntsville-Sit...

drumdance 12y ago
Yeah, I can't imagine the QA process for, say, the satellite industry.
- roedog 12y ago
  Testing flight software is very intense. 50 KSLOC of C will take a few dozen man years to develop. As a side note on terminology, QA means a very different thing in the aerospace industry. The function of QA in this world is to witness the tests and attest that we did indeed run the test as written. Usually in the form of stamping a printed procedure as it is followed. This mirrors the process used to test the mechanical and electrical parts. The testing of the software is called verification and validation testing not QA.
genericresponse 12y ago
I worked in a CMMI 5 organization and it wasn't even close to this level for our developers. However, for our testers, project managers and business analysts it's probably pretty accurate.
dscrd 12y ago
CMMI seems to be mostly a moneymaking scheme directed at business types with no skill. In contrast, Boeing used actually effective engineering disciplines.
- kamaal 12y ago
  >>CMMI seems to be mostly a moneymaking scheme directed at business types with no skill. I beg to differ. I started my career working for a CMM level 5 software services company. One of the first shocks I received after I entered the web industry was total lack of discipline here. There was barely any documentation in the web industry- No way to keep a track of a impact of a particular change, no design notes, not even a change log of whom to call in case something goes wrong, in the CMM level 5 firm we would have think of roll back scenarios even before we worked on the code. In the web industry I saw, the idea of roll back planning didn't even appear to people. Yet the way I saw, a little documentation would have the whole team sane, and avoided more 50% of fire fighting we did on weekends. Rules are boring, but when something large is at stake it generally is worth the process.
  - java-man 12y ago
    No one gets hurt if a web server goes down... right?
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      If it happens to monitor a life critical service...
      - ArkyBeagle 12y ago
        So don't do that. Ever.
  - davidw 12y ago
    > Rules are boring, but when something large is at stake it generally is worth the process. It's all about finding the right place on the curve, and not being behind it. Add huge amounts of process to most web projects, and yeah, they might turn out a bit better, but they'll cost too much for what the customer wants to pay. You're right though in that too many web projects have virtually no process or rules, and that's not good either.
  - 12y ago

drumdance 12y ago

Yeah, I can't imagine the QA process for, say, the satellite industry.

roedog 12y ago
Testing flight software is very intense. 50 KSLOC of C will take a few dozen man years to develop. As a side note on terminology, QA means a very different thing in the aerospace industry. The function of QA in this world is to witness the tests and attest that we did indeed run the test as written. Usually in the form of stamping a printed procedure as it is followed. This mirrors the process used to test the mechanical and electrical parts. The testing of the software is called verification and validation testing not QA.

genericresponse 12y ago

I worked in a CMMI 5 organization and it wasn't even close to this level for our developers. However, for our testers, project managers and business analysts it's probably pretty accurate.

dscrd 12y ago

CMMI seems to be mostly a moneymaking scheme directed at business types with no skill. In contrast, Boeing used actually effective engineering disciplines.

kamaal 12y ago
>>CMMI seems to be mostly a moneymaking scheme directed at business types with no skill. I beg to differ. I started my career working for a CMM level 5 software services company. One of the first shocks I received after I entered the web industry was total lack of discipline here. There was barely any documentation in the web industry- No way to keep a track of a impact of a particular change, no design notes, not even a change log of whom to call in case something goes wrong, in the CMM level 5 firm we would have think of roll back scenarios even before we worked on the code. In the web industry I saw, the idea of roll back planning didn't even appear to people. Yet the way I saw, a little documentation would have the whole team sane, and avoided more 50% of fire fighting we did on weekends. Rules are boring, but when something large is at stake it generally is worth the process.
- java-man 12y ago
  No one gets hurt if a web server goes down... right?
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    If it happens to monitor a life critical service...
    - ArkyBeagle 12y ago
      So don't do that. Ever.
- davidw 12y ago
  > Rules are boring, but when something large is at stake it generally is worth the process. It's all about finding the right place on the curve, and not being behind it. Add huge amounts of process to most web projects, and yeah, they might turn out a bit better, but they'll cost too much for what the customer wants to pay. You're right though in that too many web projects have virtually no process or rules, and that's not good either.
- 12y ago