4 ms·

> they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it If this is true, then less-than-deservin

> they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it If this is true, then less-than-deserving children will have successfully used their parents' wealth to artificially improve their station in life. Which means that our higher education system is helping to perpetuate class divides (even though it claims to be greatly interested in not doing so).

hkmurakami 12y ago
Legacy admissions (which is alive and well at my alma mater) definitely helps to perpetuate this as well.
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  That's true, but legacy admissions is out in the open - universities acknowledge the existence of the practice. But the inequality created by ghostwriting and admissions coaching is particularly pernicious because it occurs through a system that the universities claim is meant and supposed to give everyone an equal shot.
joesmo 12y ago
Of course it does. Look at the price of tuition. That perpetuates class divides more than any other factor.
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  The top universities (such as those in the Ivy League) typically give full financial aid to any admitted student who comes from a middle or lower class socioeconomic background. The "tuition problem" primarily exists at mediocre private universities (as well as those public universities that have significantly hiked tuition in recent years) which depend on squeezing every last penny from their students.
  - WoodenChair 12y ago
    This is absolutely true and often shocks applicants that I meet in alumni interviews (although some know it well). Most of the Ivy League offers a full ride (as an official policy) for students who come from families with <$100k/year in income. This is not merit-based, it's need-based. It's a nasty misconception of "anti-elitists" that the Ivy League is only for the rich (although as others have pointed out there are certainly legacy biases and donation biases that get some in + a need to have a certain percentage of paying students).
    - ploxiln 12y ago
      Not necessarily true. My family made about that amount, but went without some luxuries and saved for my (and my sister's) high school ($25k/yr) and college ($45k/yr). There were a few years where tuition+room+board for my sister and I was more than their after-tax income. And no, we don't have a large amount of wealth from a previous generation, my parents started near zero just a couple years before I was born. But we never got any financial aid. I had friends who's parents made more, but got 50% financial aid. The financial aid system would appear to be just another bullshit-gamed system.
      - w1ntermute 12y ago
        > There were a few years where tuition+room+board for my sister and I was more than their after-tax income I don't know anything about CMU's financial aid system, but in the Ivies, this situation certainly would not have occurred.
      - WoodenChair 12y ago
        I was speaking about a very specific financial aid situation present at several of the Ivy League universities - I don't understand why you would construe my comment to be applicable generally? Did you go to a school that specifically has a tuition is free for families with <100k/year policy?
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]

hkmurakami 12y ago

Legacy admissions (which is alive and well at my alma mater) definitely helps to perpetuate this as well.

w1ntermute 12y ago
That's true, but legacy admissions is out in the open - universities acknowledge the existence of the practice. But the inequality created by ghostwriting and admissions coaching is particularly pernicious because it occurs through a system that the universities claim is meant and supposed to give everyone an equal shot.

joesmo 12y ago

Of course it does. Look at the price of tuition. That perpetuates class divides more than any other factor.

w1ntermute 12y ago
The top universities (such as those in the Ivy League) typically give full financial aid to any admitted student who comes from a middle or lower class socioeconomic background. The "tuition problem" primarily exists at mediocre private universities (as well as those public universities that have significantly hiked tuition in recent years) which depend on squeezing every last penny from their students.
- WoodenChair 12y ago
  This is absolutely true and often shocks applicants that I meet in alumni interviews (although some know it well). Most of the Ivy League offers a full ride (as an official policy) for students who come from families with <$100k/year in income. This is not merit-based, it's need-based. It's a nasty misconception of "anti-elitists" that the Ivy League is only for the rich (although as others have pointed out there are certainly legacy biases and donation biases that get some in + a need to have a certain percentage of paying students).
  - ploxiln 12y ago
    Not necessarily true. My family made about that amount, but went without some luxuries and saved for my (and my sister's) high school ($25k/yr) and college ($45k/yr). There were a few years where tuition+room+board for my sister and I was more than their after-tax income. And no, we don't have a large amount of wealth from a previous generation, my parents started near zero just a couple years before I was born. But we never got any financial aid. I had friends who's parents made more, but got 50% financial aid. The financial aid system would appear to be just another bullshit-gamed system.
    - w1ntermute 12y ago
      > There were a few years where tuition+room+board for my sister and I was more than their after-tax income I don't know anything about CMU's financial aid system, but in the Ivies, this situation certainly would not have occurred.
    - WoodenChair 12y ago
      I was speaking about a very specific financial aid situation present at several of the Ivy League universities - I don't understand why you would construe my comment to be applicable generally? Did you go to a school that specifically has a tuition is free for families with <100k/year policy?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]