6 ms·

Mythbusters RFID episode banned

123 points by bootload 17y ago

bootload 17y ago
I was watching this video (Adam Savage : FAILURE - Defcon 17 Talk) ~ http://www.vimeo.com/6006731 http://www.vimeo.com/6006731 and wanted to find out why some random hacker asked about RFID.
idm 17y ago
I assume it makes no difference if Texas Instruments is on the record saying, "...it was waiting “for Mythbusters to let us know when they were planning on showing the segment” when they heard “that the storyline had changed and they were pursuing a different angle which did not require our help." I mean, that sounds like a line from the Godfather. Creepy. All the same, this issue is a matter of the audience, not of producing a good debunking of RFID. Any debunking that wouldn't be viewed by millions of people, via Discovery, would presumably be "all good." I think the disappointment, then, is that we really wanted to see an entertaining and thorough deconstruction of RFID... and while hackers can be thorough, they don't have the audience to justify producing something that is highly entertaining.
rudle 17y ago
Published: 3rd September 2008 Didn't you guys go to HOPE? EDIT: link http://www.thelasthope.org/talks.html http://www.thelasthope.org/talks.html
- wheels 17y ago
  Discussions from over a year ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294455 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294455
- aplusbi 17y ago
  Didn't you guys to Defcon? Where the RFID Mythbusting lecture was immediately before Adam Savage's Key-note?
jhancock 17y ago
I love that the article had a huge American Express ad served up with it!
sp332 17y ago
The Mifare-cracking presentation at 23C3 (Chaos Communication Congress, in Berlin) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=825150 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=825150
- idm 17y ago
  This video is great! The serious action starts at 21:25 when Henryk Plotz completely replicates an RFID card using his iPod. Definitely don't miss it!
- trin_ 17y ago
  there was a talk at the 25c3 from the guys who reverse engineered the chip by hand... veeeeery interesting imho. http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2896.html http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2896.html
- biohacker42 17y ago
  This should be it's own separate submission. Please submit this as it's own story sp332.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
bprater 17y ago
So what is the basic hack you RFID hackers?
- anigbrowl 17y ago
  MitM + Brute force against weak-ass key. German, but not necessary for basic understanding: http://sar.informatik.hu-berlin.de/research/publications/SAR-PR-2008-21/SAR-PR-2008-21_.pdf http://sar.informatik.hu-berlin.de/research/publications/SAR... or skip the theory: http://www.openpcd.org/Downloads.releases.0.html http://www.openpcd.org/Downloads.releases.0.html
dca 17y ago
Is this the first documented case of a MythBusters metamyth?
- smhinsey 17y ago
  I understand that things of this nature have happened before. In one of the segments from his well-known talk on failure, Adam Savage mentions that it happened with (I believe) Crest over teeth whitening strips.
billswift 17y ago
Here are some places Bruce Schneier talks about RFID, notice most of these are about RFID in passports, which is definitely public interest, and a big risk: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/02/cloning_rfid_pa_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/02/cloning_rfid_p... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hackers_clone_r.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hackers_clone_... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/rfid_passports.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/rfid_passports... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/04/rfid_passport_s.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/04/rfid_passport_... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/uk_rfid_passpor.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/uk_rfid_passpo... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/rfid_car_keys.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/rfid_car_keys....
- ErrantX 17y ago
  There was a UK TV show (The Real Hustle) which demonstrated Passport skimming at in one episode. They had a scanner in the bag and just hung around and airport bumping into people till they got lucky. Scary stuff.
sneakums 17y ago
Seems more like it was nobbled than banned.

123 points by bootload 17y ago

I was watching this video (Adam Savage : FAILURE - Defcon 17 Talk) ~ http://www.vimeo.com/6006731 http://www.vimeo.com/6006731 and wanted to find out why some random hacker asked about RFID.

idm 17y ago

I assume it makes no difference if Texas Instruments is on the record saying, "...it was waiting “for Mythbusters to let us know when they were planning on showing the segment” when they heard “that the storyline had changed and they were pursuing a different angle which did not require our help." I mean, that sounds like a line from the Godfather. Creepy. All the same, this issue is a matter of the audience, not of producing a good debunking of RFID. Any debunking that wouldn't be viewed by millions of people, via Discovery, would presumably be "all good." I think the disappointment, then, is that we really wanted to see an entertaining and thorough deconstruction of RFID... and while hackers can be thorough, they don't have the audience to justify producing something that is highly entertaining.

rudle 17y ago

Published: 3rd September 2008 Didn't you guys go to HOPE? EDIT: link http://www.thelasthope.org/talks.html http://www.thelasthope.org/talks.html

wheels 17y ago
Discussions from over a year ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294455 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=294455
aplusbi 17y ago
Didn't you guys to Defcon? Where the RFID Mythbusting lecture was immediately before Adam Savage's Key-note?

jhancock 17y ago

I love that the article had a huge American Express ad served up with it!

sp332 17y ago

The Mifare-cracking presentation at 23C3 (Chaos Communication Congress, in Berlin) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=825150 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=825150

idm 17y ago
This video is great! The serious action starts at 21:25 when Henryk Plotz completely replicates an RFID card using his iPod. Definitely don't miss it!
trin_ 17y ago
there was a talk at the 25c3 from the guys who reverse engineered the chip by hand... veeeeery interesting imho. http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2896.html http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2896.html
biohacker42 17y ago
This should be it's own separate submission. Please submit this as it's own story sp332.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

bprater 17y ago

So what is the basic hack you RFID hackers?

anigbrowl 17y ago
MitM + Brute force against weak-ass key. German, but not necessary for basic understanding: http://sar.informatik.hu-berlin.de/research/publications/SAR-PR-2008-21/SAR-PR-2008-21_.pdf http://sar.informatik.hu-berlin.de/research/publications/SAR... or skip the theory: http://www.openpcd.org/Downloads.releases.0.html http://www.openpcd.org/Downloads.releases.0.html

dca 17y ago

Is this the first documented case of a MythBusters metamyth?

smhinsey 17y ago
I understand that things of this nature have happened before. In one of the segments from his well-known talk on failure, Adam Savage mentions that it happened with (I believe) Crest over teeth whitening strips.

billswift 17y ago

Here are some places Bruce Schneier talks about RFID, notice most of these are about RFID in passports, which is definitely public interest, and a big risk: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/02/cloning_rfid_pa_1.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/02/cloning_rfid_p... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hackers_clone_r.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hackers_clone_... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/rfid_passports.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/rfid_passports... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/04/rfid_passport_s.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/04/rfid_passport_... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/uk_rfid_passpor.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/uk_rfid_passpo... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/rfid_car_keys.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/rfid_car_keys....

ErrantX 17y ago
There was a UK TV show (The Real Hustle) which demonstrated Passport skimming at in one episode. They had a scanner in the bag and just hung around and airport bumping into people till they got lucky. Scary stuff.

sneakums 17y ago

Seems more like it was nobbled than banned.