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Apple working with 'INSERT ANY CC PROVIDER' on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments... More interesting is the question which technology will be used. NFC has to play a ro

Apple working with 'INSERT ANY CC PROVIDER' on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments... More interesting is the question which technology will be used. NFC has to play a role here, because the technology is in the market and scalable. My weirder and more riskier bet is that NFC on the Apple wearable will refit all older iPhones with mobile payments. Until now noone has put NFC on a wearable, even though it makes most sense to have it on a wrist.

twoodfin 12y ago
John Gruber hinted at the same last week: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/08/28/september http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/08/28/september
- prawn 12y ago
  What in our wallets/pockets couldn't be replaced by a single digital device (such as a phone)? Or a wristband/watch communicating with a phone? In my wallet/pockets: cash, business cards, credit cards, driver's license, loyalty cards, keys. Will we still carry the wallet as we know it in 5-10 years?
rch 12y ago
They just installed NFC-ready consoles at my local Whole Foods. It could easily be coincidence, of course.
- quest88 12y ago
  My whole foods has had that for at least a few years.
  - rch 12y ago
    This one was an existing local store that was acquired a while ago.
- twoodfin 12y ago
  Most PoS systems in the U.S. are being updated to read chipped cards for the big EMV-related liability shift[1], anyway, so it makes sense to add NFC while they're at it. [1] http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681 http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Isn't NFC much less secure though than chip and pin?
    - ZenoArrow 12y ago
      Yes it is. It's possible to charge contactless payment cards even when they're in someone's wallet. That said, it is certainly possible for the implementation to be more secure on smartphones. I knew as soon as I saw the fingerprint scanner and iBeacon tech in the current iPhones that this is what Apple would be aiming for.
    - threeseed 12y ago
      That is why in most countries (I can't speak for the US) they cap the maximum withdraw limit to something like $100. That way the risk to the bank and consumer is minimal. Here in Australia our largest bank (Commonwealth Bank) has an app that will generate a code that you can enter into the ATM to make a withdrawal i.e. card not required. It has a similar risk profile to NFC.
      - nwh 12y ago
        Pity the code is so long it's easier just to use your card.
- shalmanese 12y ago
  Funny, my local Whole Foods that has had NFC readers for years just took them out and replaced them with conventional POS terminals.
- personZ 12y ago
  It is a coincidence, and it is odd that Apple seems to get attribution for emerging technology trends. All of the payment vendors are or have already embraced NFC. Here in Canada, NFC is ubiquitous, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the US. MasterCard's PayPass, for instance, is NFC.
  - cbhl 12y ago
    Having moved from Canada to the US, let me note that NFC isn't anywhere close to ubiquitous here (SF Bay Area) yet. Many banks still issue magstripe-only cards here. I think the banks here are aiming for a 2016 cut-over.
  - marcobooth 12y ago
    I rarely use NFC payments for any purchases. If Apple gets into the payment space, I probably will. The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide.
    - personZ 12y ago
      The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide. The entire payment industry is moving to chip / NFC, and the parent offers up that maybe Whole Foods is prepping for Apple. No, they aren't. They're prepping for, again, the entire payment industry. Hundreds of products across all major payment vendors. You haven't used it because the US payment space in particular is very slow, but soon enough every card you carry will feature it, and the technology will be ubiquitous, with or without Apple getting involved. This happens repeatedly: Apple is very good at choosing the right time to enter a market -- hitting it when it hits primetime -- and then they get credit for creating the market. Incidental, but I saw an incredible conversation the other day where multiple participants were vilifying Apple's competitors for copying Apple on wearables.
      - snom380 12y ago
        Is the payment industry prepping for fingerprint authenticated NFC? In half a year we're likely to see discussions about how whatever Apple is launching in 9 days was "obvious" and how they once again just happened to catch the wave at the right time. And for some reason other companies suddenly find it technologically feasible to fit NFC into their wearables, something that was apparently impossible before 9.9. 2014.
- eurleif 12y ago
  My Whole Foods has had NFC for at least a couple of years, but they just installed new card readers too (the new ones also have NFC).
jamescun 12y ago
While no wearable device has NFC, you can get bracelets with contactless payment chips. Barclaycard's BPay is a good example[1] [1] https://bpayband.co.uk/ https://bpayband.co.uk/
- mpclark 12y ago
  I have one of these. It's great, and always draws comment when I use it. But it is just a small contactless card, of the type you might stick to the back of your phone, in a cavity in a rubber bracelet. I had a wristwatch a couple of years ago that had an NFC sim in it for payments too, but that never worked reliably.
- deleted 12y ago
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- deleted 12y ago
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mcintyre1994 12y ago
At least in the UK NFC has way too much momentum for Apple to hope to compete with anything else, but it's all contactless payment cards. I don't know anybody using NFC on their phones but I definitely would (or better yet a wearable, that's really smart) use it if something was there for it. I just realised that since the London underground is about to go contactless I'll potentially be able to use my phone/a wearable instead of an oyster card or even a contactless card. That's awesome!

twoodfin 12y ago

John Gruber hinted at the same last week: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/08/28/september http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/08/28/september

prawn 12y ago
What in our wallets/pockets couldn't be replaced by a single digital device (such as a phone)? Or a wristband/watch communicating with a phone? In my wallet/pockets: cash, business cards, credit cards, driver's license, loyalty cards, keys. Will we still carry the wallet as we know it in 5-10 years?

rch 12y ago

They just installed NFC-ready consoles at my local Whole Foods. It could easily be coincidence, of course.

quest88 12y ago
My whole foods has had that for at least a few years.
- rch 12y ago
  This one was an existing local store that was acquired a while ago.
twoodfin 12y ago
Most PoS systems in the U.S. are being updated to read chipped cards for the big EMV-related liability shift[1], anyway, so it makes sense to add NFC while they're at it. [1] http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681 http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Isn't NFC much less secure though than chip and pin?
  - ZenoArrow 12y ago
    Yes it is. It's possible to charge contactless payment cards even when they're in someone's wallet. That said, it is certainly possible for the implementation to be more secure on smartphones. I knew as soon as I saw the fingerprint scanner and iBeacon tech in the current iPhones that this is what Apple would be aiming for.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    That is why in most countries (I can't speak for the US) they cap the maximum withdraw limit to something like $100. That way the risk to the bank and consumer is minimal. Here in Australia our largest bank (Commonwealth Bank) has an app that will generate a code that you can enter into the ATM to make a withdrawal i.e. card not required. It has a similar risk profile to NFC.
    - nwh 12y ago
      Pity the code is so long it's easier just to use your card.
shalmanese 12y ago
Funny, my local Whole Foods that has had NFC readers for years just took them out and replaced them with conventional POS terminals.
personZ 12y ago
It is a coincidence, and it is odd that Apple seems to get attribution for emerging technology trends. All of the payment vendors are or have already embraced NFC. Here in Canada, NFC is ubiquitous, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the US. MasterCard's PayPass, for instance, is NFC.
- cbhl 12y ago
  Having moved from Canada to the US, let me note that NFC isn't anywhere close to ubiquitous here (SF Bay Area) yet. Many banks still issue magstripe-only cards here. I think the banks here are aiming for a 2016 cut-over.
- marcobooth 12y ago
  I rarely use NFC payments for any purchases. If Apple gets into the payment space, I probably will. The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide.
  - personZ 12y ago
    The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide. The entire payment industry is moving to chip / NFC, and the parent offers up that maybe Whole Foods is prepping for Apple. No, they aren't. They're prepping for, again, the entire payment industry. Hundreds of products across all major payment vendors. You haven't used it because the US payment space in particular is very slow, but soon enough every card you carry will feature it, and the technology will be ubiquitous, with or without Apple getting involved. This happens repeatedly: Apple is very good at choosing the right time to enter a market -- hitting it when it hits primetime -- and then they get credit for creating the market. Incidental, but I saw an incredible conversation the other day where multiple participants were vilifying Apple's competitors for copying Apple on wearables.
    - snom380 12y ago
      Is the payment industry prepping for fingerprint authenticated NFC? In half a year we're likely to see discussions about how whatever Apple is launching in 9 days was "obvious" and how they once again just happened to catch the wave at the right time. And for some reason other companies suddenly find it technologically feasible to fit NFC into their wearables, something that was apparently impossible before 9.9. 2014.
eurleif 12y ago
My Whole Foods has had NFC for at least a couple of years, but they just installed new card readers too (the new ones also have NFC).

jamescun 12y ago

While no wearable device has NFC, you can get bracelets with contactless payment chips. Barclaycard's BPay is a good example[1] [1] https://bpayband.co.uk/ https://bpayband.co.uk/

mpclark 12y ago
I have one of these. It's great, and always draws comment when I use it. But it is just a small contactless card, of the type you might stick to the back of your phone, in a cavity in a rubber bracelet. I had a wristwatch a couple of years ago that had an NFC sim in it for payments too, but that never worked reliably.
deleted 12y ago
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deleted 12y ago
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mcintyre1994 12y ago

At least in the UK NFC has way too much momentum for Apple to hope to compete with anything else, but it's all contactless payment cards. I don't know anybody using NFC on their phones but I definitely would (or better yet a wearable, that's really smart) use it if something was there for it. I just realised that since the London underground is about to go contactless I'll potentially be able to use my phone/a wearable instead of an oyster card or even a contactless card. That's awesome!