6 ms·

How many average joe's carry an American Express? They need Visa/Mastercard and some well-known retailers to make this work from the get-go.

by blutoot 12y ago

ajross 12y ago
An Amex card is no harder to get than a MC/Visa. Costco has done quite well in the relevant middle-class-american-suburb market with an Amex-only policy. This isn't the barrier. The retail penetration, however, is the barrier. If you can't use these things mostly everywhere, this service is going to be no more successful than Google Wallet.
- pseudometa 12y ago
  The whole advantage of Apple getting into payments is the fact that they have millions of credit cards for their customers. The advantage is muted if they require those customers to get new cards. It is quite safe to assume they are working to partner with all of the major credit card companies and AMEX happens to be one of them.
- seivan 12y ago
  A lot of places in Sweden don't take Amex, but do Visa/Mastercard
  - moonlighter 12y ago
    Ditto in Germany and other EU countries.
  - draugadrotten 12y ago
    Percentage Fees charged for AmEx in Europe are 100-300% higher for small mom&pop stores, than for Visa/MC. Talked to my local bakery about it recently. They would be charged 5.5% of the bill if the customer used AmEx, but 2% if the customer used Visa.
- wernercd 12y ago
  Chicken or the Egg... which comes first? That's one problem. Must support it in the phone (or wearable) before you can use it at the store... must support it at the store before it's worth supporting on the phone... The second issue is fragmentation. Look at wireless charging. Two separate solutions. What works at McDonald's won't work at Starbucks (and vice versa). Although both support wireless charging, they support different models. http://www.androidauthority.com/qi-a4wp-wireless-charging-standards-190836/ http://www.androidauthority.com/qi-a4wp-wireless-charging-st... What use is a wireless payment service going to be if 90% of phones can't use it? When there is a competing standard?
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  >> "An Amex card is no harder to get than a MC/Visa." Do Amex do a debit card? In Europe (certainly in the UK) debit cards are in much wider use than credit cards and Visa and Mastercard debit cards are given with almost every bank account.
  - pilsetnieks 12y ago
    Yes, they do (it depends on the issuing bank, though.) I guess technically it's just a credit card with zero credit limit so you have to have some money in the account.
  - superuser2 12y ago
    They do a particularly weird instrument called a "charge card." It's not a debit card because it's not pulling straight from a checking account, but there's no long-term line of credit either. It's like a credit card that you're actually required to pay in full every month. So no different from responsible credit card use, but still not credit.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      The benefit of the charge card (Disclaimer: I have an Amex charge card) is that you can have an extremely large line of credit for those 21-30 days. It's less for balancing your finances and more for spend management (they have great tools to see where all of the money is going, very nice management for multiple family/corp cards, etc). I'd still trade the charge card for their Costco version.
    - tetrep 12y ago
      it's credit if you don't pay it immediately. the lending institution is extending you a line of credit for one month.
      - superuser2 12y ago
        True, but AFAK with Amex there is no "lending institution." You get the card from American Express itself and it does not involve a relationship with a bank.
- X-Istence 12y ago
  The places where I can't use my American Express have been almost non-existent. One or two mom and pop restaurants were Visa only, but that is about it. Almost all of my monthly spending is on my American Express.
  - vhost- 12y ago
    That's not my experience. I have to use an Amex card for work to make IT purchases all the time and I'd say a good 25 to 30% of the places I try to use Amex at don't except it.
    - X-Istence 12y ago
      I am a normal consumer, I have never used American Express for business purposes. 25 - 30% seems really high though, considering American Express used to be targeted mainly towards business users...
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        I've found several SaaS sites that only take Visa and Mastercard, but not Discover or American Express.
  - ingenium 12y ago
    Agreed, I make almost all my purchases with my Amex card (mostly because of unlimited 2% cash back on everything). It's usually smaller independent restaurants that don't take American Express. It's something that I never really understood, because American Express in my experience charges lower transaction fees than Visa/Mastercard. When I had an Amex merchant account they charged a flat $7/month fee with no per-transaction fees, though our volume wasn't very high. However, you have to setup the American Express account separately, which probably has a lot to do with why many mom and pop type restaurants don't take it. But now that a lot of new restaurants seem to be using processors like Square, this is a complete non-issue.
    - X-Istence 12y ago
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Probably not harder to get, but less popular for sure. They aren't accepted some places that Visa/MC is.
aaronbrethorst 12y ago
FTA: "The news site The Information previously reported that Visa had also agreed to work with Apple."
debqb 12y ago
From the article: The news site The Information previously reported that Visa had also agreed to work with Apple.
rmc 12y ago
American Express is not commonly supported outside the USA.
- t0mas88 12y ago
  True, although in the Netherlands this seems to be changing in the last few years. A lot of restaurants and stores for clothes/shoes etc are now accepting them. Grocery stores over here almost never accept credit cards. If Apple sings some kind of exclusive deal for iPhone payments with the credit card companies I expect that half of Europe will start accepting credit cards because people willing to pay for a 600 euro phone are an interesting market segment.
  - rmc 12y ago
    IME from Ireland and UK, plenty of shops here accept credit cards. Visa or Mastercard.
  - Oletros 12y ago
    Since when European countries did not accept credit or debit cards?
    - t0mas88 12y ago
      I meant American Express. Acceptance of Mastercard and Visa is fine here, but American Express used to be far behind and is now playing catch-up. And for groceries in Amsterdam for example you're going to be searching for quite some time for a supermarket that accepts credit cards. They only accept debit, which is what 99% of the population has as their primary card. Of course everybody has a credit card as well, but that's mostly used for online shopping and things like restaurants, not supermarkets. So totally different from the US where any supermarket accepts credit-cards.
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  Despite the name, it actually is. Not so much as Visa and MasterCard but it's still quite widespread. On the other hand, when I see an American tourist trying to pay with a Diners Club, I feel sorry for them.
bane 12y ago
If you shop at Costco, you'll probably very quickly get an Amex card.
toomuchtodo 12y ago
You can walk into any Walmart and get a Bluebird prepaid American Express card for <$5 with almost all of the benefits of a checking account without the checks. https://www.bluebird.com/ https://www.bluebird.com/
mseebach 12y ago
That's assuming the technology being developed is to store an existing credit card on your phone - isn't it more likely that Apple will try to make a play that involves your app store payment setup? Presumably, the implementation would be to expose your payment setup as a "virtual" Amex on your iPhone, but without making you a direct customer of Amex, but clearing the transaction through the Amex network.

How many average joe's carry an American Express? They need Visa/Mastercard and some well-known retailers to make this work from the get-go.

by blutoot 12y ago

How many average joe's carry an American Express? They need Visa/Mastercard and some well-known retailers to make this work from the get-go.

ajross 12y ago

An Amex card is no harder to get than a MC/Visa. Costco has done quite well in the relevant middle-class-american-suburb market with an Amex-only policy. This isn't the barrier. The retail penetration, however, is the barrier. If you can't use these things mostly everywhere, this service is going to be no more successful than Google Wallet.

pseudometa 12y ago
The whole advantage of Apple getting into payments is the fact that they have millions of credit cards for their customers. The advantage is muted if they require those customers to get new cards. It is quite safe to assume they are working to partner with all of the major credit card companies and AMEX happens to be one of them.
seivan 12y ago
A lot of places in Sweden don't take Amex, but do Visa/Mastercard
- moonlighter 12y ago
  Ditto in Germany and other EU countries.
- draugadrotten 12y ago
  Percentage Fees charged for AmEx in Europe are 100-300% higher for small mom&pop stores, than for Visa/MC. Talked to my local bakery about it recently. They would be charged 5.5% of the bill if the customer used AmEx, but 2% if the customer used Visa.
wernercd 12y ago
Chicken or the Egg... which comes first? That's one problem. Must support it in the phone (or wearable) before you can use it at the store... must support it at the store before it's worth supporting on the phone... The second issue is fragmentation. Look at wireless charging. Two separate solutions. What works at McDonald's won't work at Starbucks (and vice versa). Although both support wireless charging, they support different models. http://www.androidauthority.com/qi-a4wp-wireless-charging-standards-190836/ http://www.androidauthority.com/qi-a4wp-wireless-charging-st... What use is a wireless payment service going to be if 90% of phones can't use it? When there is a competing standard?
k-mcgrady 12y ago
>> "An Amex card is no harder to get than a MC/Visa." Do Amex do a debit card? In Europe (certainly in the UK) debit cards are in much wider use than credit cards and Visa and Mastercard debit cards are given with almost every bank account.
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  Yes, they do (it depends on the issuing bank, though.) I guess technically it's just a credit card with zero credit limit so you have to have some money in the account.
- superuser2 12y ago
  They do a particularly weird instrument called a "charge card." It's not a debit card because it's not pulling straight from a checking account, but there's no long-term line of credit either. It's like a credit card that you're actually required to pay in full every month. So no different from responsible credit card use, but still not credit.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    The benefit of the charge card (Disclaimer: I have an Amex charge card) is that you can have an extremely large line of credit for those 21-30 days. It's less for balancing your finances and more for spend management (they have great tools to see where all of the money is going, very nice management for multiple family/corp cards, etc). I'd still trade the charge card for their Costco version.
  - tetrep 12y ago
    it's credit if you don't pay it immediately. the lending institution is extending you a line of credit for one month.
    - superuser2 12y ago
      True, but AFAK with Amex there is no "lending institution." You get the card from American Express itself and it does not involve a relationship with a bank.
X-Istence 12y ago
The places where I can't use my American Express have been almost non-existent. One or two mom and pop restaurants were Visa only, but that is about it. Almost all of my monthly spending is on my American Express.
- vhost- 12y ago
  That's not my experience. I have to use an Amex card for work to make IT purchases all the time and I'd say a good 25 to 30% of the places I try to use Amex at don't except it.
  - X-Istence 12y ago
    I am a normal consumer, I have never used American Express for business purposes. 25 - 30% seems really high though, considering American Express used to be targeted mainly towards business users...
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      I've found several SaaS sites that only take Visa and Mastercard, but not Discover or American Express.
- ingenium 12y ago
  Agreed, I make almost all my purchases with my Amex card (mostly because of unlimited 2% cash back on everything). It's usually smaller independent restaurants that don't take American Express. It's something that I never really understood, because American Express in my experience charges lower transaction fees than Visa/Mastercard. When I had an Amex merchant account they charged a flat $7/month fee with no per-transaction fees, though our volume wasn't very high. However, you have to setup the American Express account separately, which probably has a lot to do with why many mom and pop type restaurants don't take it. But now that a lot of new restaurants seem to be using processors like Square, this is a complete non-issue.
  - X-Istence 12y ago
sliverstorm 12y ago
Probably not harder to get, but less popular for sure. They aren't accepted some places that Visa/MC is.

aaronbrethorst 12y ago

FTA: "The news site The Information previously reported that Visa had also agreed to work with Apple."

debqb 12y ago

From the article: The news site The Information previously reported that Visa had also agreed to work with Apple.

rmc 12y ago

American Express is not commonly supported outside the USA.

t0mas88 12y ago
True, although in the Netherlands this seems to be changing in the last few years. A lot of restaurants and stores for clothes/shoes etc are now accepting them. Grocery stores over here almost never accept credit cards. If Apple sings some kind of exclusive deal for iPhone payments with the credit card companies I expect that half of Europe will start accepting credit cards because people willing to pay for a 600 euro phone are an interesting market segment.
- rmc 12y ago
  IME from Ireland and UK, plenty of shops here accept credit cards. Visa or Mastercard.
- Oletros 12y ago
  Since when European countries did not accept credit or debit cards?
  - t0mas88 12y ago
    I meant American Express. Acceptance of Mastercard and Visa is fine here, but American Express used to be far behind and is now playing catch-up. And for groceries in Amsterdam for example you're going to be searching for quite some time for a supermarket that accepts credit cards. They only accept debit, which is what 99% of the population has as their primary card. Of course everybody has a credit card as well, but that's mostly used for online shopping and things like restaurants, not supermarkets. So totally different from the US where any supermarket accepts credit-cards.
pilsetnieks 12y ago
Despite the name, it actually is. Not so much as Visa and MasterCard but it's still quite widespread. On the other hand, when I see an American tourist trying to pay with a Diners Club, I feel sorry for them.

bane 12y ago

If you shop at Costco, you'll probably very quickly get an Amex card.

toomuchtodo 12y ago

You can walk into any Walmart and get a Bluebird prepaid American Express card for <$5 with almost all of the benefits of a checking account without the checks. https://www.bluebird.com/ https://www.bluebird.com/

mseebach 12y ago

That's assuming the technology being developed is to store an existing credit card on your phone - isn't it more likely that Apple will try to make a play that involves your app store payment setup? Presumably, the implementation would be to expose your payment setup as a "virtual" Amex on your iPhone, but without making you a direct customer of Amex, but clearing the transaction through the Amex network.