5 ms·

Nearables: Why a global lost-and-found network is finally viable

56 points by wdages 12y ago

Myztiq 12y ago
The estimote stickers are pretty cool. However, I notice they have a battery life of one year, at $12.50 a sticker ($99 for a pack of 10 + $25 in shipping) it is starting to get close to where I can imagine buying a set. If only they had some sort of solar recharging, or ability to pop in a new battery for a few bucks.
- tanujparikh 12y ago
  Hey, Tanuj from Estimote here. We're constantly challenging our engineering team to extend battery life through a combination of better hardware but more importantly smarter software, delivered via OTA updates. For instance, our first generation beacons just had their battery life significantly upgraded recently (blog.estimote.com/post/91749152580/estimote-rolls-out-the-worlds-first-power-management) without any need for a hardware change. We'll do the same with Stickers. 1 year is the default battery life at launch but it'll get better, quickly :)
sauravc 12y ago
Isn't this basically Tile? https://www.thetileapp.com/ https://www.thetileapp.com/
- qzcx 12y ago
  Looks like the same idea, I'm pretty disappointed that Tile is only for iOS. Looks like a good implementation of the idea in this article.
  - mahyarm 12y ago
    I think tile will come out with an android client seeing how an android engineer is on their careers page.
- stevedc3 12y ago
  Hey there one of the Co-Founders of Estimote here, that makes the Sticker Beacons and coined Nearables. Sometimes we think of Estimote Stickers as 'Tile for Developers', at least among the community that knows Tile. Meaning, we're a developer facing platform, more B2B2C and anyone can create a digital tethering application, and any app can adopt it. We have a big vision for the 'Nearables' concept and hope that the community can push this narrative forward together. Sometimes we think abstractly of beacons as place URLs for physical objects.
ibisum 12y ago
I'm still waiting for the energy-harvesting, no-battery-required, versions to hit the market .. seems the technology (BTLE) is out there, but its just waiting for someone to have the balls to mass-manufacture them ..
- janekm 12y ago
  It is surprisingly difficult to get small and cheap enough solar cells (with high enough voltage) in small/medium volume. And then there's the hassles of rechargeable batteries (safety, shipping). And of course, what if you lose your item indoors or in a bag or something?
- Ohtrahddis 12y ago
  Me too, but I think we'll have to keep waiting. I was one of these people who "thought I had the balls" to use piezo using this chip: http://www.linear.com/solutions/1506 http://www.linear.com/solutions/1506 Not only did this not sustain enough current, but taking up more space (doubling the size of my board) also hurt it to the point of it being too clunky (e.g. See linqet http://m.connectedly.com/linquet-review-smart-tracking-device-thats-not-quite-there-yet http://m.connectedly.com/linquet-review-smart-tracking-devic...) Believe it or not, BTLE isn't a holy grail for power, batteries are still a better bet when it comes to long life. One method that might work is inductive charging, which is what the pebblebee dragon does (http://www.pebblebee.com/products/bluetooth-dragon http://www.pebblebee.com/products/bluetooth-dragon). Also notice how big the pebblebee is too- but that's because it has many other sensors. But yeah, there are several devices in this business, and they are all trying to do a variety of things, and energy harvesting just isn't cutting it at the moment. I really don't think it's a matter of balls ;P
toddh 12y ago
For the iphone at least the problem is apple will not approve apps that try to discover beacons. Identifiers must be baked into the application, which greatly limits their utility.
brent_noorda 12y ago
Thanks for the thorough description. Could we simplify this by replacing the beacons with a sticker that says "if found email DS7-4BD-62A@lostfound.org" and the rest of the flow begin through email? Much lower barriers with almost all of the same results.
- wdages 12y ago
  I think the benefit with using beacons would be that you can be anywhere within ~70 meters of the item and get a notification to help out. You don't have to even see it to be able to help.
pjmorris 12y ago
I sat in a coffee shop ~5 years ago, and sketched out what a lost-and-found system based on QR codes and QR code readers. My particular application was 'Non-verbal kid lost at mall, kindly smartphone user with QR reader scans (branded) QR code on kid's shirt to get parent's contact info', but I saw no reason why that couldn't work for any item large enough to have a QR code painted/sprayed/stapled on. I don't know why this doesn't exist yet.
- icebraining 12y ago
  My mother just wrote her phone number on the tag of my brother's shirt. What's the point of the QR code?
  - deserted 12y ago
    Two benefits I can see: - The parent can change what the QR code points to at any time. - You can scan a QR code from a distance without making physical contact.
- deserted 12y ago
  This actually does exist already[1]. They sell a ton of products with a user-specific QR code. Parents/caregivers/etc. can change the message that gets displayed when someone is scanned at any time. [1] https://www.qrcodeid.org/ https://www.qrcodeid.org/
alan 12y ago
For that matter, the app could just record every time it "sees" an object and when you mark it lost, it tells you where it was the last time (GPS coordinates and all) it "saw" it.
dredmorbius 12y ago
Cory Doctorow's Makers describes a very similar item tracking and locating system based off of RFID. With effective reader ranges being up to several meters, this could be extended to a L&F system.
jimmytidey 12y ago
I'd like a passport holder that sets off an alarm on my phone eveytime its more than 2 meters away. You'd only have it active when you are travelling. Might help relieve some of the paranoia I have about loosing it. I Say passport holder because I'm not sure if you could physically affix if to the passport without upsetting border control.
BenSS 12y ago
It's been viable for at least a year in other forms. (Have a small demo system) However, there are some technical and social challenges associated with such a database. Most notably it would be very easy to poison the well as a thief/opportunitist. There's zero security around what beacons represent themselves as, it takes less than a second to clone one with a smartphone app.

56 points by wdages 12y ago

The estimote stickers are pretty cool. However, I notice they have a battery life of one year, at $12.50 a sticker ($99 for a pack of 10 + $25 in shipping) it is starting to get close to where I can imagine buying a set. If only they had some sort of solar recharging, or ability to pop in a new battery for a few bucks.

tanujparikh 12y ago
Hey, Tanuj from Estimote here. We're constantly challenging our engineering team to extend battery life through a combination of better hardware but more importantly smarter software, delivered via OTA updates. For instance, our first generation beacons just had their battery life significantly upgraded recently (blog.estimote.com/post/91749152580/estimote-rolls-out-the-worlds-first-power-management) without any need for a hardware change. We'll do the same with Stickers. 1 year is the default battery life at launch but it'll get better, quickly :)

sauravc 12y ago

Isn't this basically Tile? https://www.thetileapp.com/ https://www.thetileapp.com/

qzcx 12y ago
Looks like the same idea, I'm pretty disappointed that Tile is only for iOS. Looks like a good implementation of the idea in this article.
- mahyarm 12y ago
  I think tile will come out with an android client seeing how an android engineer is on their careers page.
stevedc3 12y ago
Hey there one of the Co-Founders of Estimote here, that makes the Sticker Beacons and coined Nearables. Sometimes we think of Estimote Stickers as 'Tile for Developers', at least among the community that knows Tile. Meaning, we're a developer facing platform, more B2B2C and anyone can create a digital tethering application, and any app can adopt it. We have a big vision for the 'Nearables' concept and hope that the community can push this narrative forward together. Sometimes we think abstractly of beacons as place URLs for physical objects.

ibisum 12y ago

I'm still waiting for the energy-harvesting, no-battery-required, versions to hit the market .. seems the technology (BTLE) is out there, but its just waiting for someone to have the balls to mass-manufacture them ..

janekm 12y ago
It is surprisingly difficult to get small and cheap enough solar cells (with high enough voltage) in small/medium volume. And then there's the hassles of rechargeable batteries (safety, shipping). And of course, what if you lose your item indoors or in a bag or something?
Ohtrahddis 12y ago
Me too, but I think we'll have to keep waiting. I was one of these people who "thought I had the balls" to use piezo using this chip: http://www.linear.com/solutions/1506 http://www.linear.com/solutions/1506 Not only did this not sustain enough current, but taking up more space (doubling the size of my board) also hurt it to the point of it being too clunky (e.g. See linqet http://m.connectedly.com/linquet-review-smart-tracking-device-thats-not-quite-there-yet http://m.connectedly.com/linquet-review-smart-tracking-devic...) Believe it or not, BTLE isn't a holy grail for power, batteries are still a better bet when it comes to long life. One method that might work is inductive charging, which is what the pebblebee dragon does (http://www.pebblebee.com/products/bluetooth-dragon http://www.pebblebee.com/products/bluetooth-dragon). Also notice how big the pebblebee is too- but that's because it has many other sensors. But yeah, there are several devices in this business, and they are all trying to do a variety of things, and energy harvesting just isn't cutting it at the moment. I really don't think it's a matter of balls ;P

toddh 12y ago

For the iphone at least the problem is apple will not approve apps that try to discover beacons. Identifiers must be baked into the application, which greatly limits their utility.

brent_noorda 12y ago

Thanks for the thorough description. Could we simplify this by replacing the beacons with a sticker that says "if found email DS7-4BD-62A@lostfound.org" and the rest of the flow begin through email? Much lower barriers with almost all of the same results.

wdages 12y ago
I think the benefit with using beacons would be that you can be anywhere within ~70 meters of the item and get a notification to help out. You don't have to even see it to be able to help.

pjmorris 12y ago

I sat in a coffee shop ~5 years ago, and sketched out what a lost-and-found system based on QR codes and QR code readers. My particular application was 'Non-verbal kid lost at mall, kindly smartphone user with QR reader scans (branded) QR code on kid's shirt to get parent's contact info', but I saw no reason why that couldn't work for any item large enough to have a QR code painted/sprayed/stapled on. I don't know why this doesn't exist yet.

icebraining 12y ago
My mother just wrote her phone number on the tag of my brother's shirt. What's the point of the QR code?
- deserted 12y ago
  Two benefits I can see: - The parent can change what the QR code points to at any time. - You can scan a QR code from a distance without making physical contact.
deserted 12y ago
This actually does exist already[1]. They sell a ton of products with a user-specific QR code. Parents/caregivers/etc. can change the message that gets displayed when someone is scanned at any time. [1] https://www.qrcodeid.org/ https://www.qrcodeid.org/

alan 12y ago

For that matter, the app could just record every time it "sees" an object and when you mark it lost, it tells you where it was the last time (GPS coordinates and all) it "saw" it.

dredmorbius 12y ago

Cory Doctorow's Makers describes a very similar item tracking and locating system based off of RFID. With effective reader ranges being up to several meters, this could be extended to a L&F system.

jimmytidey 12y ago

I'd like a passport holder that sets off an alarm on my phone eveytime its more than 2 meters away. You'd only have it active when you are travelling. Might help relieve some of the paranoia I have about loosing it. I Say passport holder because I'm not sure if you could physically affix if to the passport without upsetting border control.

BenSS 12y ago

It's been viable for at least a year in other forms. (Have a small demo system) However, there are some technical and social challenges associated with such a database. Most notably it would be very easy to poison the well as a thief/opportunitist. There's zero security around what beacons represent themselves as, it takes less than a second to clone one with a smartphone app.