4 ms·

I can't quite see why this type of thing is so in favour at the moment. I also find it slightly disquieting (although admittedly that's got a lot to do with epi

I can't quite see why this type of thing is so in favour at the moment. I also find it slightly disquieting (although admittedly that's got a lot to do with episode 2 of Black Mirror - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Mirror_episodes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Mirror_episodes ). It just seems like an unnecessary abstraction of willpower - if one already doesn't have the willpower to (for example) limit one's drinking, what is a cutesy game going to bring to the table? I mean, what's to stop me adding "smoke five cigs" or "drink an extra beer" to the list of habits in this particular example?

rprospero 12y ago
I'll put your question into more concrete terms. I've tried this sort of software before. I didn't cheat at it. However, every time I've tried it, after the first month, I usually have several bright red messages indicating how badly I'm failing at life. I then stop using the app, because it doesn't tell me anything I don't know. The apps all seem to be based on the idea of not breaking the streak. While that's great when you have a streak of successes, it's frustrating when you have a streak of failures.
- visakanv 12y ago
  If you have a streak of failures, wipe the slate clean and start with something smaller and simpler. For severe cases, it might be necessary to start with something as simple as "brush your teeth 1x a day" and NOTHING else. This can seem ridiculously juvenile, but I wasted years of my life making little progress because I thought small things were too trivial to be worth getting good at.
- toyg 12y ago
  I have about 15 "deep red" ToDos sitting there at the moment. Over a certain threshold, they don't really affect your character very much (you get wounded mostly by failed Dailies and Habits); but when you finally get around to striking one or two off, the satisfaction is immense. One thing I really like of HabitRPG is the leniency: unlike a lot of similar systems, it's not trying to punish you, but rather to nudge you in the right direction.
j2kun 12y ago
> It just seems like an unnecessary abstraction of willpower So is every video game that has cheat codes. Though I don't use these apps, it seems like the same thing. If you play by the rules, it makes the game more fun. In this case the game is chores, which is not supposed to be fun.
CJefferson 12y ago
One thing I have found vital is keeping track of what I'm doing each day: productive hours, weight lost/gained, etc. I personally find when I know these things, it's much easier to not kid myself into how well I'm doing, and what changes I make are improving matters. I'm not sure how much building a game on top of that helps, but I think the basic concept of tracking is important and if this helps people accomplish that, great.
visakanv 12y ago
Think of it as a sort of prosthesis. Those of us with ADHD, for instance, have a sort of short-sightedness when it comes to time. Things like this can help by reinterpreting our lives a series of short-term actions that have immediate consequences, rather than actions that have consequences later on (which we are effectively blind to).
profsnuggles 12y ago
If you only have a limited amount of willpower wouldn't the best idea be to wield it in the most effective manner possible? The app just gives you some tools in order to help you be more effective, it is still up to you to use them. You are forced to come up with a concrete implementation intention. Instead of thinking I'm fat maybe I should exercise you are forced to come up with an actionable item. Jog at least 15 minutes after work on Tuesdays, make garden salad for dinner Thursdays. Through the course of playing the game you end up with metrics that you can use to further help yourself. If you are failing a task every time maybe consider that you set the bar too high to start and you should get back to basics. Likewise you can look and see in concrete terms how much progress you are making. Thinking about smoking a cigarette? Now you thin is it worth breaking my 3 day streak? A small nudge to be sure but sometimes that is all you really need. The gamification aspect is brilliant. Increasing those imaginary numbers just feels good. Getting gold that can be used toward rewards that you previously committed to helps from making silly in the moment rationalizations. Well I parked my car further from the mall instead of finding a close spot that extra exercise earned me the right to eat this whole chocolate cake. Instead you are confronted with the best version of yourself who was not currently smelling chocolate cake. On top of all that the framework gives you room to fail. If you really need to smoke that cigarette it is OKAY. Those 10 hit points of damage are not a big deal just as long as you don't do it every day. It's certainly better than the people who make new years eve resolutions. This is the year I'm going to exercise every day, start eating healthy, finally finish reading all my volumes of The Art of Computer Programming, start volunteering at a soup kitchen and finish that side project I have been working on for the past 2 years.

rprospero 12y ago

I'll put your question into more concrete terms. I've tried this sort of software before. I didn't cheat at it. However, every time I've tried it, after the first month, I usually have several bright red messages indicating how badly I'm failing at life. I then stop using the app, because it doesn't tell me anything I don't know. The apps all seem to be based on the idea of not breaking the streak. While that's great when you have a streak of successes, it's frustrating when you have a streak of failures.

visakanv 12y ago
If you have a streak of failures, wipe the slate clean and start with something smaller and simpler. For severe cases, it might be necessary to start with something as simple as "brush your teeth 1x a day" and NOTHING else. This can seem ridiculously juvenile, but I wasted years of my life making little progress because I thought small things were too trivial to be worth getting good at.
toyg 12y ago
I have about 15 "deep red" ToDos sitting there at the moment. Over a certain threshold, they don't really affect your character very much (you get wounded mostly by failed Dailies and Habits); but when you finally get around to striking one or two off, the satisfaction is immense. One thing I really like of HabitRPG is the leniency: unlike a lot of similar systems, it's not trying to punish you, but rather to nudge you in the right direction.

j2kun 12y ago

> It just seems like an unnecessary abstraction of willpower So is every video game that has cheat codes. Though I don't use these apps, it seems like the same thing. If you play by the rules, it makes the game more fun. In this case the game is chores, which is not supposed to be fun.

CJefferson 12y ago

One thing I have found vital is keeping track of what I'm doing each day: productive hours, weight lost/gained, etc. I personally find when I know these things, it's much easier to not kid myself into how well I'm doing, and what changes I make are improving matters. I'm not sure how much building a game on top of that helps, but I think the basic concept of tracking is important and if this helps people accomplish that, great.

visakanv 12y ago

Think of it as a sort of prosthesis. Those of us with ADHD, for instance, have a sort of short-sightedness when it comes to time. Things like this can help by reinterpreting our lives a series of short-term actions that have immediate consequences, rather than actions that have consequences later on (which we are effectively blind to).

profsnuggles 12y ago

If you only have a limited amount of willpower wouldn't the best idea be to wield it in the most effective manner possible? The app just gives you some tools in order to help you be more effective, it is still up to you to use them. You are forced to come up with a concrete implementation intention. Instead of thinking I'm fat maybe I should exercise you are forced to come up with an actionable item. Jog at least 15 minutes after work on Tuesdays, make garden salad for dinner Thursdays. Through the course of playing the game you end up with metrics that you can use to further help yourself. If you are failing a task every time maybe consider that you set the bar too high to start and you should get back to basics. Likewise you can look and see in concrete terms how much progress you are making. Thinking about smoking a cigarette? Now you thin is it worth breaking my 3 day streak? A small nudge to be sure but sometimes that is all you really need. The gamification aspect is brilliant. Increasing those imaginary numbers just feels good. Getting gold that can be used toward rewards that you previously committed to helps from making silly in the moment rationalizations. Well I parked my car further from the mall instead of finding a close spot that extra exercise earned me the right to eat this whole chocolate cake. Instead you are confronted with the best version of yourself who was not currently smelling chocolate cake. On top of all that the framework gives you room to fail. If you really need to smoke that cigarette it is OKAY. Those 10 hit points of damage are not a big deal just as long as you don't do it every day. It's certainly better than the people who make new years eve resolutions. This is the year I'm going to exercise every day, start eating healthy, finally finish reading all my volumes of The Art of Computer Programming, start volunteering at a soup kitchen and finish that side project I have been working on for the past 2 years.