12 ms·

Why Don’t Restaurants Charge for Reservations?

37 points by adamcarson 12y ago

cphoover 12y ago
Would you go to a restaurant that charged for reservations? Personally, I would not... I imagine that is why.
- protonfish 12y ago
  If it were a small fee (less than $5) and it guaranteed my party no waiting, then heck yes; especially for very popular places that have long waits or on special occasions when you want everything to go smoothly.
- mbollier 12y ago
  If I wanted to eat at a highly-acclaimed restaurant and was given the option of either waiting three months or paying some fee of $X to guarantee a reservation tonight, then there are some non-zero values of X in which I would gladly pay.
  - SocksCanClose 12y ago
    do you have a few minutes to chat over the next few days? would love to talk to you about this comment. working on a solution that would allow you to do just that -- with a twist. you can email me at josh at mptonight dot com.
    - hcho 12y ago
      If you want to do this for customer validation, don't bother, the market for this already exists. Sometime ago, there was a post here about a startup making a killing selling software which sells reservations for restaurants and bars. If you believe you can execute it, go for it.
- patrickyeon 12y ago
  No, but I'd happily make a non-refundable down-payment on my meal in exchange for a reservation, especially for short notice (<48 hours) reservations. I'd much rather such a system than any of (1) restaurant won't take any reservations, (2) no reservations for the next 2 months, (3) paying for a scalped reservation, (4) and/or waiting in line.
- brazzy 12y ago
  Why the hell not?
- baddox 12y ago
  I rarely go to any sit-down restaurants, so my opinion may be worthless, but I think I would be fine with a nominal fee, or better yet a deposit that goes toward the price of the meal.
mbollier 12y ago
I imagine at some point we will see this happen, as society stratifies even further. You can already pay to skip lines at places like Disney.
- afafsd 12y ago
  (a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. (b) On the other hand, popular and in-demand restaurants already have schemes for letting rich and/or important people get reservations ahead of the plebs. When I went to French Laundry (after a six-month odyssey to get a reservation) the waiter mentioned that only about half their tables are actually open for reservation by the ordinary scheme, the others are reserved for booking by other means. If you're a rich dude who likes to bring clients there and always buys the expensive wine, you'd better believe that they're gonna give you the number for their secret reservation hotline.
  - bulletsvshumans 12y ago
    > (a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. In terms of the share of U.S. income going to the top 10% or 1%, the data would seem to imply that the U.S. is currently the most stratified it's been in over 80 years [1]. [1] http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-through-the-recovery/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-ri...
  - obstacle1 12y ago
    >(a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. Terrible, cringe-worthy logic. If stratification still exists, whether or not it is of a lesser degree than in the past is irrelevant. It exists, and you can complain about it. In fact, if you don't complain about it, that may be misconstrued as implicit acceptance. So complaining is actually the better move, provided you actually want said stratification eliminated. Think.
  - 12y ago
raverbashing 12y ago
There are a lot of good options that don't involve staying in a line or rushing to make a reservation. I've heard about restaurants wanting charge for reservations by "prepayment of the meal", and it's somewhere I wouldn't go to. "Alicia’s reluctance to user her and her restaurant’s name suggests one reason: customers are very sensitive not only to prices but to the perception of a rip-off." Exactly
arjie 12y ago
There are some places that are remarkably successful and ticket for tables: http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/2014/06/tickets-for-restaurants/ http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/2014/06/tickets-for...
ylem 12y ago
It's interesting, I remember listening to NPR awhile back and they had a story about how high end restaurants are experimenting with a "ticket" system for reservations. Part of the problem is that even for restaurants where say you reserve well in advance for a holiday, it's surprisingly common for people to cancel at the last minute. So, some have tried to have people prepay for the meal. It might only work for rather pricey restaurants though...Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/08/05/337834577/no-more-reservations-exclusive-restaurants-require-tickets-instead http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/08/05/337834577/no-mor...
ArkyBeagle 12y ago
I think it's because there's a general cost in uncertainty for table occupancy. A reservation makes that go away. If you have a restaurant that will always have a permanent line waiting on tables, then maybe you could charge. But it would be easier to hide that cost in the bill.
judk 12y ago
He same reason most economically obvious things don't happen in practice: transaction costs. But with mobile electronic payments, this is changing across the economy.
Joeri 12y ago
Why do restaurants take reservations at all? Reservations force tables to remain unoccupied, and even when they're occupied, diners feel no need to rush to make room for the next set of diners since they reserved their time slot. A restaurant that's not popular enough to fill up completely doesn't need reservations, and one popular enough that they have to turn away people is losing money accepting reservations. So, why do so many restaurants do it?
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I guess there is still room there for the reservations to make the restaurant more popular. "Arrive at 8 and be seated by 8:10" is a different thing than "Maybe you'll get a table".
- gress 12y ago
  Because diners are not interchangeable components. Some become regular customers.
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  Because customers are willing to pay higher food prices in exchange for reliably being able to arrive at the establishment at a particular time and be seated. I've been to restaurants that don't take reservations, and instead take a wait-list. It took something like 3 hours of waiting to get a table. I could never go there for a client or investor dinner, because the unreliability of the table timing means I can't schedule it in. Considering a meeting like that is worth tends of thousands of dollars and requires that people with busy schedules all be around at the same time, I don't mind the extra $50-100 a person meals at those places tend to run. tl;dr: They do charge a reservation premium, it just gets mixed in to the food expense rather than being a separate item. Additionally, people scheduling tend to bring large parties or are there for special events, which tend to spend more money.
- rainsford 12y ago
  Because reservations affect popularity, both in general and with specific, potentially desirable customers. All else being equal, I am more likely to eat at a restaurant that takes reservations than one that does not because I know I'll have a table when I get there, and I doubt I'm the only person who feels that way. This is particularly true for higher end restaurants where the "experience" is a bigger part of meal. And waiting around to sit down is probably not the experience you had in mind. And it's worth noting that a reservation is valuable even if there isn't always a wait. Unless the customer is a regular, he's unlikely to know what the wait would be like in the first place, and things vary depending on the day and time. A reservation removes that uncertainty for the customer, which is valuable even if a reservation wouldn't have been required.
smokey_the_bear 12y ago
Chez Panisse charges a $25 deposit for reservations, that goes towards your meal. But they have two seatings per night, so it is more difficult to fill tables for no-shows. It's still impossible to get reservations there.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  That's a good system - presumably if you cancel your reservation, you get back your deposit, and it allows the people on the waiting list a chance at the seat.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    presumably if you cancel your reservation, you get back your deposit Yes, as long as you cancel more than 48 hours before the reservation.
    - frandroid 12y ago
      Otherwise, what would be the point...
ghshephard 12y ago
What I've never understood is the opposite, is those restaurants which have insane lines, as in 2+ hours waiting outside to get a seat, why they don't simply raise their prices by $1 or $2. There was a restaurant that everyone in college in Vancouver went to back in 1993-1994, Antons Pasta, and you always had to wait incredibly long for - the place was packed 100% of the time at night. I would see this line (fresh from my economics class), and wonder, instead of charging $5 for the tortellini, and have a 3 hour line, why don't they charge $5.50, or heck, even $6.00, and only have a 1 hour line. It's not as though having a 1 hour line is going to result in any lost business. I'm thinking that part of this is the fact that a long line outside, means there will always be business inside, and there is always some paranoia in a restaurant of having empty seats inside, and better to have slightly missed profit opportunity, than to have some seats go empty and make a "reasonable" profit. That's the only theory I could come up with.
- brenschluss 12y ago
  Because lines are marketing/publicity/advertising. The longer the line, the more effective your publicity is, and the more long-term popularity you are stacking up. It's probably a short-term profit to have the restaurant charge more and to have shorter lines, at the expense of foregoing the free/best publicity possible long-term.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  Because most restaurants only get busy on certain nights of the week, and even then only during certain seasons. So they'd need to start with the high prices and then have special offers or cheaper menus during lunch or midweek etc. Some restaurants do this , but it tends to be chain restaurants so it's seen as a bit declasse.
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    Isn't it the case that restaurants have separate lunch and dinner menus for this very reason? I see further down that Antons is still in business, and still has a line - so perhaps we shouldn't second guess them - apparently they know what they are doing.
patio11 12y ago
San Francisco, where allocating resources by paying for them is vulgar. You should instead come by them honestly, such as by telling the concierge at the Four Seasons that you wish to partake in the cultural delights of the city.
jzwinck 12y ago
I've encountered another approach in NYC which I haven't seen mentioned here. Some higher-end restaurants require a credit card number (over the phone, maybe online is possible too) which they tell you they will charge e.g. $25 per person for no-shows. The first time I was a bit put-off (giving out CC numbers on the phone never feels great), but now I'm more sanguine about it. Aside: in central London, booking is essential. Many decent (not even high-end) restaurants have most of their tables booked in advance. I did a double-take the first time I walked into a place with two-thirds of its tables empty and was turned away. "Fully booked" seems a lot more common there. I never knew a restaurant to charge for booking, but I did know people who paid "unofficially" to get tables, or had office assistants scramble for them.
axilmar 12y ago
My opinion is that having a long queue, possibly longer than any of the competitors' queues is more important for the owners than a few more bucks, especially in the long run. Amongst their peers, chefs are more interested about their fame than their pockets.

37 points by adamcarson 12y ago

cphoover 12y ago

Would you go to a restaurant that charged for reservations? Personally, I would not... I imagine that is why.

protonfish 12y ago
If it were a small fee (less than $5) and it guaranteed my party no waiting, then heck yes; especially for very popular places that have long waits or on special occasions when you want everything to go smoothly.
mbollier 12y ago
If I wanted to eat at a highly-acclaimed restaurant and was given the option of either waiting three months or paying some fee of $X to guarantee a reservation tonight, then there are some non-zero values of X in which I would gladly pay.
- SocksCanClose 12y ago
  do you have a few minutes to chat over the next few days? would love to talk to you about this comment. working on a solution that would allow you to do just that -- with a twist. you can email me at josh at mptonight dot com.
  - hcho 12y ago
    If you want to do this for customer validation, don't bother, the market for this already exists. Sometime ago, there was a post here about a startup making a killing selling software which sells reservations for restaurants and bars. If you believe you can execute it, go for it.
patrickyeon 12y ago
No, but I'd happily make a non-refundable down-payment on my meal in exchange for a reservation, especially for short notice (<48 hours) reservations. I'd much rather such a system than any of (1) restaurant won't take any reservations, (2) no reservations for the next 2 months, (3) paying for a scalped reservation, (4) and/or waiting in line.
brazzy 12y ago
Why the hell not?
baddox 12y ago
I rarely go to any sit-down restaurants, so my opinion may be worthless, but I think I would be fine with a nominal fee, or better yet a deposit that goes toward the price of the meal.

mbollier 12y ago

I imagine at some point we will see this happen, as society stratifies even further. You can already pay to skip lines at places like Disney.

afafsd 12y ago
(a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. (b) On the other hand, popular and in-demand restaurants already have schemes for letting rich and/or important people get reservations ahead of the plebs. When I went to French Laundry (after a six-month odyssey to get a reservation) the waiter mentioned that only about half their tables are actually open for reservation by the ordinary scheme, the others are reserved for booking by other means. If you're a rich dude who likes to bring clients there and always buys the expensive wine, you'd better believe that they're gonna give you the number for their secret reservation hotline.
- bulletsvshumans 12y ago
  > (a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. In terms of the share of U.S. income going to the top 10% or 1%, the data would seem to imply that the U.S. is currently the most stratified it's been in over 80 years [1]. [1] http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-through-the-recovery/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-ri...
- obstacle1 12y ago
  >(a) Society is currently less stratified than pretty much any point in recorded history, so if you don't like stratification then don't complain. Terrible, cringe-worthy logic. If stratification still exists, whether or not it is of a lesser degree than in the past is irrelevant. It exists, and you can complain about it. In fact, if you don't complain about it, that may be misconstrued as implicit acceptance. So complaining is actually the better move, provided you actually want said stratification eliminated. Think.
- 12y ago

raverbashing 12y ago

There are a lot of good options that don't involve staying in a line or rushing to make a reservation. I've heard about restaurants wanting charge for reservations by "prepayment of the meal", and it's somewhere I wouldn't go to. "Alicia’s reluctance to user her and her restaurant’s name suggests one reason: customers are very sensitive not only to prices but to the perception of a rip-off." Exactly

arjie 12y ago

There are some places that are remarkably successful and ticket for tables: http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/2014/06/tickets-for-restaurants/ http://website.alinearestaurant.com/site/2014/06/tickets-for...

ylem 12y ago

It's interesting, I remember listening to NPR awhile back and they had a story about how high end restaurants are experimenting with a "ticket" system for reservations. Part of the problem is that even for restaurants where say you reserve well in advance for a holiday, it's surprisingly common for people to cancel at the last minute. So, some have tried to have people prepay for the meal. It might only work for rather pricey restaurants though...Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/08/05/337834577/no-more-reservations-exclusive-restaurants-require-tickets-instead http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/08/05/337834577/no-mor...

ArkyBeagle 12y ago

I think it's because there's a general cost in uncertainty for table occupancy. A reservation makes that go away. If you have a restaurant that will always have a permanent line waiting on tables, then maybe you could charge. But it would be easier to hide that cost in the bill.

judk 12y ago

He same reason most economically obvious things don't happen in practice: transaction costs. But with mobile electronic payments, this is changing across the economy.

Joeri 12y ago

Why do restaurants take reservations at all? Reservations force tables to remain unoccupied, and even when they're occupied, diners feel no need to rush to make room for the next set of diners since they reserved their time slot. A restaurant that's not popular enough to fill up completely doesn't need reservations, and one popular enough that they have to turn away people is losing money accepting reservations. So, why do so many restaurants do it?

maxerickson 12y ago
I guess there is still room there for the reservations to make the restaurant more popular. "Arrive at 8 and be seated by 8:10" is a different thing than "Maybe you'll get a table".
gress 12y ago
Because diners are not interchangeable components. Some become regular customers.
ObviousScience 12y ago
Because customers are willing to pay higher food prices in exchange for reliably being able to arrive at the establishment at a particular time and be seated. I've been to restaurants that don't take reservations, and instead take a wait-list. It took something like 3 hours of waiting to get a table. I could never go there for a client or investor dinner, because the unreliability of the table timing means I can't schedule it in. Considering a meeting like that is worth tends of thousands of dollars and requires that people with busy schedules all be around at the same time, I don't mind the extra $50-100 a person meals at those places tend to run. tl;dr: They do charge a reservation premium, it just gets mixed in to the food expense rather than being a separate item. Additionally, people scheduling tend to bring large parties or are there for special events, which tend to spend more money.
rainsford 12y ago
Because reservations affect popularity, both in general and with specific, potentially desirable customers. All else being equal, I am more likely to eat at a restaurant that takes reservations than one that does not because I know I'll have a table when I get there, and I doubt I'm the only person who feels that way. This is particularly true for higher end restaurants where the "experience" is a bigger part of meal. And waiting around to sit down is probably not the experience you had in mind. And it's worth noting that a reservation is valuable even if there isn't always a wait. Unless the customer is a regular, he's unlikely to know what the wait would be like in the first place, and things vary depending on the day and time. A reservation removes that uncertainty for the customer, which is valuable even if a reservation wouldn't have been required.

smokey_the_bear 12y ago

Chez Panisse charges a $25 deposit for reservations, that goes towards your meal. But they have two seatings per night, so it is more difficult to fill tables for no-shows. It's still impossible to get reservations there.

ghshephard 12y ago
That's a good system - presumably if you cancel your reservation, you get back your deposit, and it allows the people on the waiting list a chance at the seat.
- icebraining 12y ago
  presumably if you cancel your reservation, you get back your deposit Yes, as long as you cancel more than 48 hours before the reservation.
  - frandroid 12y ago
    Otherwise, what would be the point...

ghshephard 12y ago

What I've never understood is the opposite, is those restaurants which have insane lines, as in 2+ hours waiting outside to get a seat, why they don't simply raise their prices by $1 or $2. There was a restaurant that everyone in college in Vancouver went to back in 1993-1994, Antons Pasta, and you always had to wait incredibly long for - the place was packed 100% of the time at night. I would see this line (fresh from my economics class), and wonder, instead of charging $5 for the tortellini, and have a 3 hour line, why don't they charge $5.50, or heck, even $6.00, and only have a 1 hour line. It's not as though having a 1 hour line is going to result in any lost business. I'm thinking that part of this is the fact that a long line outside, means there will always be business inside, and there is always some paranoia in a restaurant of having empty seats inside, and better to have slightly missed profit opportunity, than to have some seats go empty and make a "reasonable" profit. That's the only theory I could come up with.

brenschluss 12y ago
Because lines are marketing/publicity/advertising. The longer the line, the more effective your publicity is, and the more long-term popularity you are stacking up. It's probably a short-term profit to have the restaurant charge more and to have shorter lines, at the expense of foregoing the free/best publicity possible long-term.
jiggy2011 12y ago
Because most restaurants only get busy on certain nights of the week, and even then only during certain seasons. So they'd need to start with the high prices and then have special offers or cheaper menus during lunch or midweek etc. Some restaurants do this , but it tends to be chain restaurants so it's seen as a bit declasse.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  Isn't it the case that restaurants have separate lunch and dinner menus for this very reason? I see further down that Antons is still in business, and still has a line - so perhaps we shouldn't second guess them - apparently they know what they are doing.

patio11 12y ago

San Francisco, where allocating resources by paying for them is vulgar. You should instead come by them honestly, such as by telling the concierge at the Four Seasons that you wish to partake in the cultural delights of the city.

jzwinck 12y ago

I've encountered another approach in NYC which I haven't seen mentioned here. Some higher-end restaurants require a credit card number (over the phone, maybe online is possible too) which they tell you they will charge e.g. $25 per person for no-shows. The first time I was a bit put-off (giving out CC numbers on the phone never feels great), but now I'm more sanguine about it. Aside: in central London, booking is essential. Many decent (not even high-end) restaurants have most of their tables booked in advance. I did a double-take the first time I walked into a place with two-thirds of its tables empty and was turned away. "Fully booked" seems a lot more common there. I never knew a restaurant to charge for booking, but I did know people who paid "unofficially" to get tables, or had office assistants scramble for them.

axilmar 12y ago

My opinion is that having a long queue, possibly longer than any of the competitors' queues is more important for the owners than a few more bucks, especially in the long run. Amongst their peers, chefs are more interested about their fame than their pockets.