4 ms·

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

by revelation 12y ago

idlewords 12y ago
You have no possible way to know that.
- danielrhodes 12y ago
  Let's look at these at these two facts: 1) Many companies have pulled their data from US-based data centers for fear of government intrusion after the Snowden revelations. 2) The future of Microsoft's server business is in the cloud and they have (likely) told customers their data is safe if stored in the EU Thus it stands to reason that in order to keep customers and make money, they are motivated to win this case.
  - _delirium 12y ago
    On #2, they do tell their customers that, in fact it's even a significant component of their cloud marketing. One of their attempted selling points vis-a-vis Google Apps for Business is that going with Microsoft for things like hosted email is safer from an EU-compliance point of view.
mariuolo 12y ago
Indeed, they're bound to lose many contracts if they're forced to comply. Also it would be interesting to see if someone would be criminally liable in Ireland.
- bjornsing 12y ago
  > Also it would be interesting to see if someone would be criminally liable in Ireland. That's the most principally interesting thing here IMHO... Can the government of one country compel a citizen to commit a crime in another country? At least in Sweden it could easily be considered a form of espionage to hand over emails to a foreign government. A few years ago I would have ended that question with !?!?!?, now I'm not so sure... :(
sz4kerto 12y ago
Well, we can say that every company does everything only for money, and that's probably not far from the truth. However, exactly because this can be taken as an universal truth, it's generally advisable to not ponder on this while discussing what and how they do, because it does not add anything to the conversation. In this case, we can agree that it's the right thing (for us). Similarly, if you buy a good car, you don't always think on that 'they made this only for money'.
- revelation 12y ago
  Huh? Of course it makes sense to ponder on the reasons behind a particular companies decision? That is what we call "the stock market". Theres such a thing as strategy. What I'm saying is that there are companies that care about your data for it is their strategy, and then there are companies like Microsoft that will happily steer the ship given whatever wind is blowing at them on any given day.
  - AndyNemmity 12y ago
    There isn't any pondering needed. They are doing it because if they follow this request it will destroy their enterprise cloud computing entirely. That's reason alone to do it. It would destroy an entire business of theirs. It's vital to their very survival to stop it. It's not even a question, this is as large of an attack on their business as there could be.
bushido 12y ago
> They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. Why can't it be all three? Sticking to principles can be quite profitable, but it still needs balls.
- jkestner 12y ago
  Because if you believe they did it on principles, then you will have misplaced your trust and be worse off in the future. Microsoft has also turned over user information to the government. That doesn't sound like principles - at least not the same principles that I care about.
shawnz 12y ago
Is there a difference morally between doing it for PR and doing it for money?
- ignostic 12y ago
  Good question. I'd say they're barely distinguishable. If MS relents, they're allowing a breach of trust that will make current and potential customers shop for non-US-based competitors.
  - jqm 12y ago
    I'm guessing this is inevitably already going to happen over time.... You can't have people unlearn what they have learned. If your wife cheats on you, even if she manifestly passes on an opportunity to do it again in a well publicized display, you are going to have a hard time trusting her from then on and if fidelity is important to you, you may start to examine your options... Microsoft isn't going anywhere soon. They are embedded. But they are not going to be generally trusted again by many, and I don't believe this can be fixed by a couple of high profile PR schemes. This isn't MS hatred nor NSA rejection. Just stating the reality of the situation. Alternatives are going to be looked for and this case won't change that.
lrem 12y ago
Well, I'd rather say all of these are valid reasons. Plus, not breaking the law in other places. Complying with this court order may get you sentenced in where you took the data from.
negamax 12y ago
If MS does hands over the data. Governments by regulations will outlaw every European company and government entities to store data with them.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

idlewords 12y ago

You have no possible way to know that.

danielrhodes 12y ago
Let's look at these at these two facts: 1) Many companies have pulled their data from US-based data centers for fear of government intrusion after the Snowden revelations. 2) The future of Microsoft's server business is in the cloud and they have (likely) told customers their data is safe if stored in the EU Thus it stands to reason that in order to keep customers and make money, they are motivated to win this case.
- _delirium 12y ago
  On #2, they do tell their customers that, in fact it's even a significant component of their cloud marketing. One of their attempted selling points vis-a-vis Google Apps for Business is that going with Microsoft for things like hosted email is safer from an EU-compliance point of view.

mariuolo 12y ago

Indeed, they're bound to lose many contracts if they're forced to comply. Also it would be interesting to see if someone would be criminally liable in Ireland.

bjornsing 12y ago
> Also it would be interesting to see if someone would be criminally liable in Ireland. That's the most principally interesting thing here IMHO... Can the government of one country compel a citizen to commit a crime in another country? At least in Sweden it could easily be considered a form of espionage to hand over emails to a foreign government. A few years ago I would have ended that question with !?!?!?, now I'm not so sure... :(

sz4kerto 12y ago

Well, we can say that every company does everything only for money, and that's probably not far from the truth. However, exactly because this can be taken as an universal truth, it's generally advisable to not ponder on this while discussing what and how they do, because it does not add anything to the conversation. In this case, we can agree that it's the right thing (for us). Similarly, if you buy a good car, you don't always think on that 'they made this only for money'.

revelation 12y ago
Huh? Of course it makes sense to ponder on the reasons behind a particular companies decision? That is what we call "the stock market". Theres such a thing as strategy. What I'm saying is that there are companies that care about your data for it is their strategy, and then there are companies like Microsoft that will happily steer the ship given whatever wind is blowing at them on any given day.
- AndyNemmity 12y ago
  There isn't any pondering needed. They are doing it because if they follow this request it will destroy their enterprise cloud computing entirely. That's reason alone to do it. It would destroy an entire business of theirs. It's vital to their very survival to stop it. It's not even a question, this is as large of an attack on their business as there could be.

bushido 12y ago

> They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. Why can't it be all three? Sticking to principles can be quite profitable, but it still needs balls.

jkestner 12y ago
Because if you believe they did it on principles, then you will have misplaced your trust and be worse off in the future. Microsoft has also turned over user information to the government. That doesn't sound like principles - at least not the same principles that I care about.

shawnz 12y ago

Is there a difference morally between doing it for PR and doing it for money?

ignostic 12y ago
Good question. I'd say they're barely distinguishable. If MS relents, they're allowing a breach of trust that will make current and potential customers shop for non-US-based competitors.
- jqm 12y ago
  I'm guessing this is inevitably already going to happen over time.... You can't have people unlearn what they have learned. If your wife cheats on you, even if she manifestly passes on an opportunity to do it again in a well publicized display, you are going to have a hard time trusting her from then on and if fidelity is important to you, you may start to examine your options... Microsoft isn't going anywhere soon. They are embedded. But they are not going to be generally trusted again by many, and I don't believe this can be fixed by a couple of high profile PR schemes. This isn't MS hatred nor NSA rejection. Just stating the reality of the situation. Alternatives are going to be looked for and this case won't change that.

lrem 12y ago

Well, I'd rather say all of these are valid reasons. Plus, not breaking the law in other places. Complying with this court order may get you sentenced in where you took the data from.

negamax 12y ago

If MS does hands over the data. Governments by regulations will outlaw every European company and government entities to store data with them.