5 ms·

Ms. McMillan was convicted, unanimously, by a jury of her peers. The video of her assault on the police officer is widely available and can be viewed here: htt

Ms. McMillan was convicted, unanimously, by a jury of her peers. The video of her assault on the police officer is widely available and can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=devvY1cCVFE&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdevvY1cCVFE&has_verified=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=devvY1cCVFE&oref=https%3A%2F... You can draw your own conclusions, but what I see is somebody preparing, consciously, to use the force of slamming their elbow into a police officer's face in order to escape from that officer. Perhaps you disagree with a lot of things -- police militarization, incarceration rates in this country, unequal outcomes and opportunities based on socioeconomic factors. But I don't see how a fair-minded person can agree that we ought to go around solving our problems by elbowing officers of the law in the eyeball: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/nyregion/officer-testifies-about-encounter-with-occupy-wall-street-protester.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/nyregion/officer-testifies... The woman in this case has repeated problems with the law (and the truth) and was arrested again last year for impersonating a lawyer in the subway and interfering with an arrest: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/nyregion/occupy-wall-street-protester-is-out-of-jail-and-back-in-court.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/nyregion/occupy-wall-stree... As the prosecutors say in that case: "This new arrest mirrors what was on display throughout the trial: the defendant’s utter contempt for the police and the important job they do on a daily basis." Fact-free magazines like Cosmopolitan may display sympathy for people like Ms. McMillan, but here at HackerNews we should not.

guard-of-terra 12y ago
Quoting a Youtube comment from the video you posted: "Finally some justice for these ass holes who illegally protest and then claim police brutality all the time. I hope she rots in jail." Is it come kind of totalitarian sect behind this video? Anyway, don't ever want to have anything with you.
- rayiner 12y ago
  Broad swaths of society hate protestors, because they threaten order, and order is something that everyone benefits from. I imagine you have this idea of protestors and revolutionaries leading society to higher states of justice, but more often they just indulge in chaos and violence (e.g. "pro democracy" protests in the middle east turning into support of islamic extremists; pro-republican protests in revolutionary France turning into the Reign of Terror).
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    That's a bit strong, of the protests I've seen 90%+ just wave their placards and chant for a few hours , then go home.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      Edited slightly to clarify my point: the vast majority of protests are ineffective; the ones that are effective lead to violent injustice more often than they lead to justice.
      - guard-of-terra 12y ago
        Doesn't make sense to interfere with ineffective protests. As you can see in comments below, this leads some protesters to become badass revolutionaries and then dictators. And you only helped them while discouraging good citizens from spreading their point of view.
        rayiner 12y ago
        I'm not saying it makes sense to interfere with ineffective protests (and I don't support doing so). I'm explaining why many, ordinary, people hate protestors.
        guard-of-terra 12y ago
        By doing so they further tear apart the fabric of society which, when it rips apart, will destroy the Order they love so much. To be precise, by demanding to narrow the feedback of the society and radicalize the protesters. This isn't going to end well if that sentiment you describe is widespread.
      - jiggy2011 12y ago
        I'm struggling to think of a violent protest, at least in the western world that caused a change in government policy, beyond causing police departments to invest in watercannons. Of course it's difficult to measure the effectiveness of a peaceful protest, but it wouldn't surprise me if vocal opposition to say the Iraq war had an impact on foreign policy for Syria for example.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  >Is it come kind of totalitarian sect behind this video? It seems to be a lone Republican who is rather bitter about Obama getting elected.
  - guard-of-terra 12y ago
    Why? Obama is not very keen on protesters, and anyway next President would be Republican likely. What's the problem? Compare that to countries where unrest is squashed and the same bad guy sits in the office for decades, and then bloody coup. You should be happy you still get protests.
reconbot 12y ago
I do see a cop coming up along side her and grabbing at her and then getting hit in the face. The handprint bruise on her chest paint a clearer picture than this grainy video. But we don't know what happened. I'll also say there's a big difference between an activist having trouble with the law and a thief or other criminal. She says she got grabbed and reacted, and didn't know who it was. She doesn't think you should hit cops either. Nothing you've brought up suggests other motives.
readerrrr 12y ago
You can draw your own conclusions, but what I see is somebody preparing, consciously, to use the force of slamming their elbow into a police officer's face in order to escape from that officer. What is the point of the wording "preparing consciously"? Can you prepare for something unconsciously? If someone gropes you from behind, some conscious effort is required to defend yourself. Fact-free magazines like Cosmopolitan may display sympathy for people like Ms. McMillan, but here at HackerNews we should not. Please don't use the term "we". I'm not a sociopath and I have sympathy for people who were treated unjustfully.
- SilasX 12y ago
  >What is the point of the wording "preparing consciously"? Can you prepare for something unconsciously? The point was probably to emphasize the premeditation of it, and I agree it was needlessly verbose. But yes, you can prepare unconsciously, like when your body has the fight-or-flight response.
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  > Please don't use the term "we". I'm not a sociopath and I have sympathy for people who were treated unjustfully. A thousand times this.
crdoconnor 12y ago
> I don't see how a fair-minded person can agree that we ought to go around solving our problems by elbowing officers of the law in the eyeball Why exactly is it not a correct response to having your breasts groped from behind by an unknown assailant?
- icantthinkofone 12y ago
  When you put yourself into such a situation as this, bad things can happen to you, and it may be you who must be prepared for those bad things and the consequences of your actions. Don't blame others for putting yourself into that situation.
  - smtddr 12y ago
    Nope. You don't know what events led up to that officer grabbing her. If I show up a a protest, emotions running high, walking around with a sign and I'm suddenly grabbed from behind... I will attack without identifying who grabbed me. That's not something I should be arrested for. The person grabbing at me unexpectedly is the one who better be prepared for bad things to occur. Now if the officer approached her from the front and identified himself as an officer of the law and attempted to explain why he stopped her then suddenly she elbows him in the face, that's another story.
    - icantthinkofone 12y ago
      When you walk into a protest, with "emotions running high" to the point that police need to be there, bad things can happen. You put yourself in the middle and bad things can happen to you. Quit blaming others.
      - smtddr 12y ago
        No, Who decides when the police need to be there? How can there be a protest without emotions running high? That's pretty much what a protest is; people who've reached their limit and want change. If whatever they're protesting wasn't so emotionally/physically stressful they probably wouldn't be protesting to begin with.
JonathanJones 12y ago
Is this really Marc Cenedella? (http://www.linkedin.com/in/cenedella http://www.linkedin.com/in/cenedella) I didn't know he was such a misogynist and bigot.
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  What do you expect from Hardward and Yale?
criveros 12y ago
She probably didn't know who was groping her from behind.
smutticus 12y ago
Am I the only person that can't see anything in that video? Without hearing any explanation of what's going on in that video, I can't see it as proving, or disproving anything.
fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
I didn't see what you saw, the video isn't clear at all. I am left wondering how/why she received so many injuries herself though.
mrottenkolber 12y ago
Nice uppercut. mcendella I despise you. Obviously you have never been the victim of the police. Even if she did a roundhouse kick knocking him down and teabagged him afterwards that would be no excuse for her treatment. There is a difference between a violent protester and a violent policeman. The policeman is trained and armed. He is also getting paid to suppress the protest. The protester on the other hand has a non-commercial agenda, which might be idealistic and in a way not voluntary. The protester has no combat training, no armor. The protester does not choose to enter a violent conflict with the police. The police on the other hand chooses to act as a more often that not active, as opposed to passive, violent force opposed to the protest. During duty, police officers do not deserve the protection of civil law. It can not be crime to insult, hurt or kill a police officer during a heated protest, as it is no crime for a police officer to insult, hurt or kill a civillian in the course of his duty. To argue on this specific case, there appears to be proof that she was groped. So there should be a sexual harrassment charge (might be dropped due to "not on purpose"). She reacted violently, within seven seconds. In germany thats called "Affekt". Completely legal, actually she had the right to spontaniously choke the guy even if he was civillian (in germany, as long as she was fast enough). So lets just say the cops had a reason to arrest her (btw on a protest cops usually arrest anyone for anything, because why not), they beat her up doing so. Quote from your video: "Is she getting beat up?", "Yes, shes getting beat up." So why are those guys not tried and sentenced to fucking death (what do you have the death sentence for again)? Even I could arrest that girl without hurting her ffs. These guys should be trained to do so. To sum this up, the mind of a violent protester goes something like this: "Fuck they're gonna hurt/kill me, im scared im enraged im panicking, i want to get out of this situation." The mind of a police officer during a protest goes something like this (actually exactly): "Fucking protesters, im standing here like an idiot, these fucking broad minded fuckers. Hey, wait, did she just kinda look violent? FINALLY a reason why I can assault one of these fucks." I got hit by a baton once[1], trying to escape out of a "Kessel" (a circle of policement surounding protesters while throwing tear gas inside). Hit my leg, beside my leg being fucked, i weant deaf for ten minutes (might be an adrenaline/pain/shock think who knows). And thats nothing. I've seen 13 year old girls getting beaten by 4 cops with batons and cops spraying maze into your face from a 1 foot distance because you decided to shout at them. These are not rare cases. This happens on every protest, its the police's job to make it happen on every protest. If you ever get arrested during a protest, you can count on being beat up during that arrest. Also expect verbal assault. Unless you are verbally assaulted multiple times during arrest, you must have met a jesus-like cop. Try it for yourself, there are some things that will get you arrested which will actually not be procecuted (in germany thats for instance being masked), also try to run away when they try to arrest you otherwise you might not get the whole getting kneed in the back while on the ground experience. Its a pretty weird feeling. Afterwards go to a doctor, tell him you've been beaten up. Watch their concerned facial expression while asking you "Who'd do such a thing?". I bet you don't feel nearly as violated as the doctor thinks you have been.[2] So I must say, every time someone gets sentenced for hurting a police officer during protest: BOO FUCKING HOO, poor little officer. Really. Poor personfied violence of the state. You got hurt, during your job, which is to hurt adversaries of the state. Someone should play a violin. Edited, footnotes: [1] I think I was 16, it was a counter protest against a Neo-nazi parade. [2] Also first hand experience. I was 17, it was a student protest for better education. I have video footage. No charges against me but I have a medical certificate that I was violated. PS: If you think I am a radical activist. Quite the opposite, the few protests I have been to made me stay far away of any kind of police presence (including protests) since then. Its telling that of five protests I've been to in my life, on four I would consider having seen serious human rights violations.
arh68 12y ago
I don't want to disagree with what you're saying, I just want to disagree with your methodology here. Just one point: How can you start up ad hominem attacks on the woman here, "repeated problems with the law", while completely (and I'm hoping not knowingly) omitting all that similar information about the officer? I don't understand. How can you be so slanted in your presentation? Let me just fill in the details, from your link [1], that you dropped: Officer Bovell said that the police department’s Internal Affairs Division had suspended him for five days without pay, docked him 25 vacation days, rescinded his second job as a bank security guard and put him on probation for a year. He said that in addition to the three tickets that he was penalized for, he had also fixed three other parking tickets. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/nyregion/officer-stands-by-his-account-of-scuffle-at-occupy-wall-street-protest.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/nyregion/officer-stands-by...

guard-of-terra 12y ago

Quoting a Youtube comment from the video you posted: "Finally some justice for these ass holes who illegally protest and then claim police brutality all the time. I hope she rots in jail." Is it come kind of totalitarian sect behind this video? Anyway, don't ever want to have anything with you.

rayiner 12y ago
Broad swaths of society hate protestors, because they threaten order, and order is something that everyone benefits from. I imagine you have this idea of protestors and revolutionaries leading society to higher states of justice, but more often they just indulge in chaos and violence (e.g. "pro democracy" protests in the middle east turning into support of islamic extremists; pro-republican protests in revolutionary France turning into the Reign of Terror).
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  That's a bit strong, of the protests I've seen 90%+ just wave their placards and chant for a few hours , then go home.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    Edited slightly to clarify my point: the vast majority of protests are ineffective; the ones that are effective lead to violent injustice more often than they lead to justice.
    - guard-of-terra 12y ago
      Doesn't make sense to interfere with ineffective protests. As you can see in comments below, this leads some protesters to become badass revolutionaries and then dictators. And you only helped them while discouraging good citizens from spreading their point of view.
      - rayiner 12y ago
        I'm not saying it makes sense to interfere with ineffective protests (and I don't support doing so). I'm explaining why many, ordinary, people hate protestors.
        guard-of-terra 12y ago
        By doing so they further tear apart the fabric of society which, when it rips apart, will destroy the Order they love so much. To be precise, by demanding to narrow the feedback of the society and radicalize the protesters. This isn't going to end well if that sentiment you describe is widespread.
    - jiggy2011 12y ago
      I'm struggling to think of a violent protest, at least in the western world that caused a change in government policy, beyond causing police departments to invest in watercannons. Of course it's difficult to measure the effectiveness of a peaceful protest, but it wouldn't surprise me if vocal opposition to say the Iraq war had an impact on foreign policy for Syria for example.
crdoconnor 12y ago
>Is it come kind of totalitarian sect behind this video? It seems to be a lone Republican who is rather bitter about Obama getting elected.
- guard-of-terra 12y ago
  Why? Obama is not very keen on protesters, and anyway next President would be Republican likely. What's the problem? Compare that to countries where unrest is squashed and the same bad guy sits in the office for decades, and then bloody coup. You should be happy you still get protests.

reconbot 12y ago

I do see a cop coming up along side her and grabbing at her and then getting hit in the face. The handprint bruise on her chest paint a clearer picture than this grainy video. But we don't know what happened. I'll also say there's a big difference between an activist having trouble with the law and a thief or other criminal. She says she got grabbed and reacted, and didn't know who it was. She doesn't think you should hit cops either. Nothing you've brought up suggests other motives.

readerrrr 12y ago

You can draw your own conclusions, but what I see is somebody preparing, consciously, to use the force of slamming their elbow into a police officer's face in order to escape from that officer. What is the point of the wording "preparing consciously"? Can you prepare for something unconsciously? If someone gropes you from behind, some conscious effort is required to defend yourself. Fact-free magazines like Cosmopolitan may display sympathy for people like Ms. McMillan, but here at HackerNews we should not. Please don't use the term "we". I'm not a sociopath and I have sympathy for people who were treated unjustfully.

SilasX 12y ago
>What is the point of the wording "preparing consciously"? Can you prepare for something unconsciously? The point was probably to emphasize the premeditation of it, and I agree it was needlessly verbose. But yes, you can prepare unconsciously, like when your body has the fight-or-flight response.
mrottenkolber 12y ago
> Please don't use the term "we". I'm not a sociopath and I have sympathy for people who were treated unjustfully. A thousand times this.

crdoconnor 12y ago

> I don't see how a fair-minded person can agree that we ought to go around solving our problems by elbowing officers of the law in the eyeball Why exactly is it not a correct response to having your breasts groped from behind by an unknown assailant?

icantthinkofone 12y ago
When you put yourself into such a situation as this, bad things can happen to you, and it may be you who must be prepared for those bad things and the consequences of your actions. Don't blame others for putting yourself into that situation.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Nope. You don't know what events led up to that officer grabbing her. If I show up a a protest, emotions running high, walking around with a sign and I'm suddenly grabbed from behind... I will attack without identifying who grabbed me. That's not something I should be arrested for. The person grabbing at me unexpectedly is the one who better be prepared for bad things to occur. Now if the officer approached her from the front and identified himself as an officer of the law and attempted to explain why he stopped her then suddenly she elbows him in the face, that's another story.
  - icantthinkofone 12y ago
    When you walk into a protest, with "emotions running high" to the point that police need to be there, bad things can happen. You put yourself in the middle and bad things can happen to you. Quit blaming others.
    - smtddr 12y ago
      No, Who decides when the police need to be there? How can there be a protest without emotions running high? That's pretty much what a protest is; people who've reached their limit and want change. If whatever they're protesting wasn't so emotionally/physically stressful they probably wouldn't be protesting to begin with.

JonathanJones 12y ago

Is this really Marc Cenedella? (http://www.linkedin.com/in/cenedella http://www.linkedin.com/in/cenedella) I didn't know he was such a misogynist and bigot.

mrottenkolber 12y ago
What do you expect from Hardward and Yale?

criveros 12y ago

She probably didn't know who was groping her from behind.

smutticus 12y ago

Am I the only person that can't see anything in that video? Without hearing any explanation of what's going on in that video, I can't see it as proving, or disproving anything.

fnordfnordfnord 12y ago

I didn't see what you saw, the video isn't clear at all. I am left wondering how/why she received so many injuries herself though.

mrottenkolber 12y ago

Nice uppercut. mcendella I despise you. Obviously you have never been the victim of the police. Even if she did a roundhouse kick knocking him down and teabagged him afterwards that would be no excuse for her treatment. There is a difference between a violent protester and a violent policeman. The policeman is trained and armed. He is also getting paid to suppress the protest. The protester on the other hand has a non-commercial agenda, which might be idealistic and in a way not voluntary. The protester has no combat training, no armor. The protester does not choose to enter a violent conflict with the police. The police on the other hand chooses to act as a more often that not active, as opposed to passive, violent force opposed to the protest. During duty, police officers do not deserve the protection of civil law. It can not be crime to insult, hurt or kill a police officer during a heated protest, as it is no crime for a police officer to insult, hurt or kill a civillian in the course of his duty. To argue on this specific case, there appears to be proof that she was groped. So there should be a sexual harrassment charge (might be dropped due to "not on purpose"). She reacted violently, within seven seconds. In germany thats called "Affekt". Completely legal, actually she had the right to spontaniously choke the guy even if he was civillian (in germany, as long as she was fast enough). So lets just say the cops had a reason to arrest her (btw on a protest cops usually arrest anyone for anything, because why not), they beat her up doing so. Quote from your video: "Is she getting beat up?", "Yes, shes getting beat up." So why are those guys not tried and sentenced to fucking death (what do you have the death sentence for again)? Even I could arrest that girl without hurting her ffs. These guys should be trained to do so. To sum this up, the mind of a violent protester goes something like this: "Fuck they're gonna hurt/kill me, im scared im enraged im panicking, i want to get out of this situation." The mind of a police officer during a protest goes something like this (actually exactly): "Fucking protesters, im standing here like an idiot, these fucking broad minded fuckers. Hey, wait, did she just kinda look violent? FINALLY a reason why I can assault one of these fucks." I got hit by a baton once[1], trying to escape out of a "Kessel" (a circle of policement surounding protesters while throwing tear gas inside). Hit my leg, beside my leg being fucked, i weant deaf for ten minutes (might be an adrenaline/pain/shock think who knows). And thats nothing. I've seen 13 year old girls getting beaten by 4 cops with batons and cops spraying maze into your face from a 1 foot distance because you decided to shout at them. These are not rare cases. This happens on every protest, its the police's job to make it happen on every protest. If you ever get arrested during a protest, you can count on being beat up during that arrest. Also expect verbal assault. Unless you are verbally assaulted multiple times during arrest, you must have met a jesus-like cop. Try it for yourself, there are some things that will get you arrested which will actually not be procecuted (in germany thats for instance being masked), also try to run away when they try to arrest you otherwise you might not get the whole getting kneed in the back while on the ground experience. Its a pretty weird feeling. Afterwards go to a doctor, tell him you've been beaten up. Watch their concerned facial expression while asking you "Who'd do such a thing?". I bet you don't feel nearly as violated as the doctor thinks you have been.[2] So I must say, every time someone gets sentenced for hurting a police officer during protest: BOO FUCKING HOO, poor little officer. Really. Poor personfied violence of the state. You got hurt, during your job, which is to hurt adversaries of the state. Someone should play a violin. Edited, footnotes: [1] I think I was 16, it was a counter protest against a Neo-nazi parade. [2] Also first hand experience. I was 17, it was a student protest for better education. I have video footage. No charges against me but I have a medical certificate that I was violated. PS: If you think I am a radical activist. Quite the opposite, the few protests I have been to made me stay far away of any kind of police presence (including protests) since then. Its telling that of five protests I've been to in my life, on four I would consider having seen serious human rights violations.

arh68 12y ago

I don't want to disagree with what you're saying, I just want to disagree with your methodology here. Just one point: How can you start up ad hominem attacks on the woman here, "repeated problems with the law", while completely (and I'm hoping not knowingly) omitting all that similar information about the officer? I don't understand. How can you be so slanted in your presentation? Let me just fill in the details, from your link [1], that you dropped: Officer Bovell said that the police department’s Internal Affairs Division had suspended him for five days without pay, docked him 25 vacation days, rescinded his second job as a bank security guard and put him on probation for a year. He said that in addition to the three tickets that he was penalized for, he had also fixed three other parking tickets. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/nyregion/officer-stands-by-his-account-of-scuffle-at-occupy-wall-street-protest.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/nyregion/officer-stands-by...