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"Node.JS", "isomorphic single page applications", "npm", "bower", "Grunt", "Broccoli", "Gulp", "Backbone", "React", "Ember", "Polymer", "Angular", "Mocha", "Cas

"Node.JS", "isomorphic single page applications", "npm", "bower", "Grunt", "Broccoli", "Gulp", "Backbone", "React", "Ember", "Polymer", "Angular", "Mocha", "Casper", "Karma", "evergreen web browsers", ad infinitum. While the above bouquet of random monikers may excite the cutting-edge startup developer, try pitching such an amalgamation to management in an enterprise environment. Inevitably, this week's fashionable web technologies will be supplanted by next week's fads. YUI was nice because it channeled the Borg in absorbing the good from multiple technologies while attempting to provide users with some form of a migration path, usually through its better-than-average documentation. YUI evolved. Many of the above technologies will be cut-and-run like the projects they supplanted last week. Perhaps the answer to this industry's flightiness will be found in the increasing use of transpilers. Javascript, with its callback-heavy code reading like so much thread through so many needle-eyes, does not seem to engender longevity in its creations. A framework built around something like gopherjs may be more libel to grow and adapt rather than becoming yet another abandonware.

Igglyboo 12y ago
Walmart uses node.js and it has paid off for them handsomely, I'm pretty sure they fit your definition of enterprise seeing as they have 2 million employees and close to 500 million in revenue yearly. http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/why-walmart-is-using-node-js/ http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/why-walmart-is-using-node-...
- dragonquest 12y ago
  > close to 500 million in revenue yearly You mean 500 Billion.
- studpuppy 12y ago
  I'm not sure what Walmart's annual revenue is, but I would guess it's a tad greater than $500 million :)
- tootie 12y ago
  I don't get that article. They are presumably not really using node client-side. It sounds like they just have a node backend. I'm guessig the use of node was coincident with them rebuilding from the ground up.
  - Lennie 12y ago
    As I read it: they are rendering pages on the backend if a slow device visits the site. On faster devices, it's better to let the Javascript run on the client.
Havvy 12y ago
Node.js is a platform from which tools are built, much like Ruby, Python, Bash, and C/C++. With Node.js comes `npm`, a tool for getting the tools. bower is also a package manager, IIRC. I'd avoid it. Isomorphic single page apps seemed to be buzzwords to me. Grunt, Broccoli, and Gulp are all tools used to create build scripts in the Node community. You only need one, and you could pick Grunt or Gulp with a coin flip and not be worse off. React, Backbone, Ember, Polymer, Angular...they're all client side JS frameworks. IMO, go with React if you want stability. But in any case, this is what you would use instead of YUI. And these tools work well with the rest of tools Yahoo mentioned. Mocha is a unit testing framework. You need some testing framework, and this is a good one. Casper...I think that's a headless web browser. Not sure, I've never used it. Evergreen web browsers is a buzzword for the practice of Mozilla and Google of putting out updates every 6 weeks. It's a state of the environment, not a technology. The explosion of tools in the JS environment started with Node.js. It was a critical point in the history of JS, and it means that if you want higher quality software, you have more tools to do so. Make sure you aren't choosing tools because they are trendy, but because they solve a problem you are having.
- steveax 12y ago
  > Casper...I think that's a headless web browser. It's an abstraction and utility library that sits in front of headless web browsers.
- eric_bullington 12y ago
  >Isomorphic single page apps seemed to be buzzwords to me How would you describe a single-page app that is pre-rendered on the server? Hmm, maybe "pre-rendered" would have been a better term than "isomorphic".
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
roel_v 12y ago
All of these things are designed to only live as long as the companies they are used at... ducks.
aikah 12y ago
First you are mixing clientside and serverside development libs which are not the same thing. I believe there is little reason to use nodejs on the server. Yeah,it 'scales' , but so does the JVM or go. And frankly async programming the nodejs way sucks,even with promises or generators ,since there is no way to abstract asynchronicity 100%. If you eleminate all the serverside tools, then you only need a framework (AngularJS for instance) and a testrunner ( like Jasmine,you can even run it on the browser directly). You might need a tool to minify code, but gzip compression,a cdn and caching are often enough to reduce the load.
tych0 12y ago
What is an "isomorphic single page application"? I know what isomorphic means in a group theoretic context, but I have no idea what it means in a webapp context.
- mtinkerhess 12y ago
  http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-apps/ http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-app...
smegel 12y ago
> try pitching such an amalgamation to management in an enterprise environment. I remember being is such a "pitch" meeting once with relatively senior managers. They were discussing the difficulty integrating some components of a client side web framework, and I recall some developer excitedly announcing how some <insert random moniker> by <some random hacker> had come out just 2 weeks ago on Github that would solve all their problems. The looks on their enterprisy faces was priceless.
- gaius 12y ago
  Serious enterprise guys are planning applications to last 20-50 years.
tomjen3 12y ago
Management should not be told what kind of tech will be used to build their system, at least not on such a detailed level as that. And if you want something enterprizy just tell them you will be using Google Closure which looks enough like Java that they are going to leave you alone.
nawitus 12y ago
>While the above bouquet of random monikers may excite the cutting-edge startup developer, try pitching such an amalgamation to management in an enterprise environment. What "management" makes these kind of tech decisions? Sounds like a flawed management structure.

Igglyboo 12y ago

Walmart uses node.js and it has paid off for them handsomely, I'm pretty sure they fit your definition of enterprise seeing as they have 2 million employees and close to 500 million in revenue yearly. http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/why-walmart-is-using-node-js/ http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/24/why-walmart-is-using-node-...

dragonquest 12y ago
> close to 500 million in revenue yearly You mean 500 Billion.
studpuppy 12y ago
I'm not sure what Walmart's annual revenue is, but I would guess it's a tad greater than $500 million :)
tootie 12y ago
I don't get that article. They are presumably not really using node client-side. It sounds like they just have a node backend. I'm guessig the use of node was coincident with them rebuilding from the ground up.
- Lennie 12y ago
  As I read it: they are rendering pages on the backend if a slow device visits the site. On faster devices, it's better to let the Javascript run on the client.

Havvy 12y ago

Node.js is a platform from which tools are built, much like Ruby, Python, Bash, and C/C++. With Node.js comes `npm`, a tool for getting the tools. bower is also a package manager, IIRC. I'd avoid it. Isomorphic single page apps seemed to be buzzwords to me. Grunt, Broccoli, and Gulp are all tools used to create build scripts in the Node community. You only need one, and you could pick Grunt or Gulp with a coin flip and not be worse off. React, Backbone, Ember, Polymer, Angular...they're all client side JS frameworks. IMO, go with React if you want stability. But in any case, this is what you would use instead of YUI. And these tools work well with the rest of tools Yahoo mentioned. Mocha is a unit testing framework. You need some testing framework, and this is a good one. Casper...I think that's a headless web browser. Not sure, I've never used it. Evergreen web browsers is a buzzword for the practice of Mozilla and Google of putting out updates every 6 weeks. It's a state of the environment, not a technology. The explosion of tools in the JS environment started with Node.js. It was a critical point in the history of JS, and it means that if you want higher quality software, you have more tools to do so. Make sure you aren't choosing tools because they are trendy, but because they solve a problem you are having.

steveax 12y ago
> Casper...I think that's a headless web browser. It's an abstraction and utility library that sits in front of headless web browsers.
eric_bullington 12y ago
>Isomorphic single page apps seemed to be buzzwords to me How would you describe a single-page app that is pre-rendered on the server? Hmm, maybe "pre-rendered" would have been a better term than "isomorphic".

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

roel_v 12y ago

All of these things are designed to only live as long as the companies they are used at... ducks.

aikah 12y ago

First you are mixing clientside and serverside development libs which are not the same thing. I believe there is little reason to use nodejs on the server. Yeah,it 'scales' , but so does the JVM or go. And frankly async programming the nodejs way sucks,even with promises or generators ,since there is no way to abstract asynchronicity 100%. If you eleminate all the serverside tools, then you only need a framework (AngularJS for instance) and a testrunner ( like Jasmine,you can even run it on the browser directly). You might need a tool to minify code, but gzip compression,a cdn and caching are often enough to reduce the load.

tych0 12y ago

What is an "isomorphic single page application"? I know what isomorphic means in a group theoretic context, but I have no idea what it means in a webapp context.

mtinkerhess 12y ago
http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-apps/ http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-app...

smegel 12y ago

> try pitching such an amalgamation to management in an enterprise environment. I remember being is such a "pitch" meeting once with relatively senior managers. They were discussing the difficulty integrating some components of a client side web framework, and I recall some developer excitedly announcing how some <insert random moniker> by <some random hacker> had come out just 2 weeks ago on Github that would solve all their problems. The looks on their enterprisy faces was priceless.

gaius 12y ago
Serious enterprise guys are planning applications to last 20-50 years.

tomjen3 12y ago

Management should not be told what kind of tech will be used to build their system, at least not on such a detailed level as that. And if you want something enterprizy just tell them you will be using Google Closure which looks enough like Java that they are going to leave you alone.

nawitus 12y ago

>While the above bouquet of random monikers may excite the cutting-edge startup developer, try pitching such an amalgamation to management in an enterprise environment. What "management" makes these kind of tech decisions? Sounds like a flawed management structure.