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>but it's also bad from developers skill set investments that will soon become obsolete. Why is it bad that developers will move from old legacy frameworks/lib

by nawitus 12y ago

>but it's also bad from developers skill set investments that will soon become obsolete. Why is it bad that developers will move from old legacy frameworks/libraries to newer, more modular solutions? I don't quite understand why someone would be unhappy to have to learn a new JavaScript framework.

mythz 12y ago
Time spent learning new frameworks and "different approaches", is not spent delivering value to customers. Not to mention all the existing libraries/components accumulated in the years of simplifying building apps with it also become obsolete.
- nawitus 12y ago
  The value comes from the new "frameworks" being better than legacy. If YUI actually was better than the newer solutions, Yahoo! probably wouldn't claim that it's worse.
pistle 12y ago
Experience in one context won't shift well and senior folks will seem junior, if not worse, for inserting non-idiomatic patterns into the newer solutions. Q: Where's my cheese? A: We don't have cheese here.
fasouto 12y ago
> I don't quite understand why someone would be unhappy to have to learn a new JavaScript framework. Because you need to learn that framework. And the new packaging system. And the new *SQL database. And SASS, LESS... And the new test framework And another build tool. And a new programming language. And understand the business logic of the new client. And sleep 8 hours, exercise, see your friends, spend time with your gf... Modern web development could be overwhelming, I'm still young and willing to learn but I totally can understand why some people stick with "old" technologies.
- greenpizza13 12y ago
  I agree it's a hassle, but don't you feel like this is a bit melodramatic?
- teddyh 12y ago
  > spend time with your gf... Unrelated: That’s uncool; you’ve just made every developer who read that, who has (or would like) a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend, feel like you think they shouldn’t belong here. And I would hope you actually don’t think that.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- nawitus 12y ago
  Your post doesn't make much sense. You could use a new packagin system, a new *SQL database, SASS/LESS, a new test framework, a new built tool etc. even without letting go of YUI. If you never want to learn anything new, then be my guest, but I don't understand those developers. Besides, developers should learn new software all the time, not develop with YUI for five years and suddenly learn everything at once.
  - temuze 12y ago
    He's saying there's a lot to do and already a constant flux of other new things to learn. I imagine seeing your favorite library being deprecated could be frustrating? But I would say to those people that if the maintainers of your favorite library are saying that there are better things out there, then you have reason to learn new things.
- mrexroad 12y ago
  i have a wife and 4 kids. i'm home to eat dinner with my family each day, i bathe my kids, i read to them for 15-20min before bed, i put them to bed, and then watch a tv show or movie w/ my wife. wife goes to bed, i usually stay up another 2-3 hours coding, reading, watching cosmos/st:tng, or something like practicing drywall mudding/taping. family first, then work, then sleep. w/ priorities clearly defined, i never have a problem deciding what to do (be it saying no to work at 6pm, or going back to office at 12am). when i do read/code outside of work, i either focus on high level design pattern usage or on increasing knowledge of obscure js/css performance hacks. e.g. angular is dead-simple to write code for once you pay attention the patterns behind it instead of the conventions/syntax. otherwise it's a mess of hacked together code and googling for a better way to do what you're trying to do. frameworks come, frameworks go. learn the foundations well and the rest of it matters a whole lot less.
Aldo_MX 12y ago
This is why you should understand the language first. A framework is just a tool to abstract some complex/repetitive tasks and work faster, but they're in no way a replacement for the language they're written in. For example, jQuery.ajax(), you should not treat it as a black box, and pretend everything is done by magic. You should at least understand the process behind it: Creating the XMLHTTPRequest object, setting the onreadystate event to check if the request was successful, etc. If a feature brought by a framework is good enough, it will be added eventually to the language, ex. document.querySelectorAll().
rakoo 12y ago
As a developer, it's always interesting to learn outside your scope of knowledge. As a product manager, it's a PITA to spend X hours for technical stuff that delivers no value to the clients.

by nawitus 12y ago

mythz 12y ago

Time spent learning new frameworks and "different approaches", is not spent delivering value to customers. Not to mention all the existing libraries/components accumulated in the years of simplifying building apps with it also become obsolete.

nawitus 12y ago
The value comes from the new "frameworks" being better than legacy. If YUI actually was better than the newer solutions, Yahoo! probably wouldn't claim that it's worse.

pistle 12y ago

Experience in one context won't shift well and senior folks will seem junior, if not worse, for inserting non-idiomatic patterns into the newer solutions. Q: Where's my cheese? A: We don't have cheese here.

fasouto 12y ago

> I don't quite understand why someone would be unhappy to have to learn a new JavaScript framework. Because you need to learn that framework. And the new packaging system. And the new *SQL database. And SASS, LESS... And the new test framework And another build tool. And a new programming language. And understand the business logic of the new client. And sleep 8 hours, exercise, see your friends, spend time with your gf... Modern web development could be overwhelming, I'm still young and willing to learn but I totally can understand why some people stick with "old" technologies.

greenpizza13 12y ago
I agree it's a hassle, but don't you feel like this is a bit melodramatic?
teddyh 12y ago
> spend time with your gf... Unrelated: That’s uncool; you’ve just made every developer who read that, who has (or would like) a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend, feel like you think they shouldn’t belong here. And I would hope you actually don’t think that.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
nawitus 12y ago
Your post doesn't make much sense. You could use a new packagin system, a new *SQL database, SASS/LESS, a new test framework, a new built tool etc. even without letting go of YUI. If you never want to learn anything new, then be my guest, but I don't understand those developers. Besides, developers should learn new software all the time, not develop with YUI for five years and suddenly learn everything at once.
- temuze 12y ago
  He's saying there's a lot to do and already a constant flux of other new things to learn. I imagine seeing your favorite library being deprecated could be frustrating? But I would say to those people that if the maintainers of your favorite library are saying that there are better things out there, then you have reason to learn new things.
mrexroad 12y ago
i have a wife and 4 kids. i'm home to eat dinner with my family each day, i bathe my kids, i read to them for 15-20min before bed, i put them to bed, and then watch a tv show or movie w/ my wife. wife goes to bed, i usually stay up another 2-3 hours coding, reading, watching cosmos/st:tng, or something like practicing drywall mudding/taping. family first, then work, then sleep. w/ priorities clearly defined, i never have a problem deciding what to do (be it saying no to work at 6pm, or going back to office at 12am). when i do read/code outside of work, i either focus on high level design pattern usage or on increasing knowledge of obscure js/css performance hacks. e.g. angular is dead-simple to write code for once you pay attention the patterns behind it instead of the conventions/syntax. otherwise it's a mess of hacked together code and googling for a better way to do what you're trying to do. frameworks come, frameworks go. learn the foundations well and the rest of it matters a whole lot less.

Aldo_MX 12y ago

This is why you should understand the language first. A framework is just a tool to abstract some complex/repetitive tasks and work faster, but they're in no way a replacement for the language they're written in. For example, jQuery.ajax(), you should not treat it as a black box, and pretend everything is done by magic. You should at least understand the process behind it: Creating the XMLHTTPRequest object, setting the onreadystate event to check if the request was successful, etc. If a feature brought by a framework is good enough, it will be added eventually to the language, ex. document.querySelectorAll().

rakoo 12y ago

As a developer, it's always interesting to learn outside your scope of knowledge. As a product manager, it's a PITA to spend X hours for technical stuff that delivers no value to the clients.