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For the moment it seems to me that there is no chance to ever know what something REALLY is. There is obviously stuff out there that behaves exactly like mathem

by danbruc 12y ago

For the moment it seems to me that there is no chance to ever know what something REALLY is. There is obviously stuff out there that behaves exactly like mathematical models we made up - there are things called electrons behaving like our model of electrons interacting with things called photons behaving like our models of photons. But what does this tell you about the nature of electrons and photons? Is a electron just a handful of numbers like charge -1 and spin 1/2 behaving according to the laws of physics or is there more to an electron? I can't even imagine how one could bridge the gap between our models of reality and reality but then there is probably so much more to learn about our universe, maybe some day...

snarfy 12y ago
Why are all electrons the same? It's because they are all manifestations of the same electric field. But then what is the electric field? Yep, it's a rabbit hole.
thibauts 12y ago
Maybe asking what things REALLY are has no meaning. Do objects have characteristics apart from what we can (physically) interact with and measure ? If thoses characteristics exist but aren't measurable can we say they are real ? Does it make any sense ? I often use this line of thought to talk about God with open-minded believers. If there is a God that created our reality and acts on it, then the effects of these actions are real in our sense and thus measurable. It then follows that God isn't separate from the natural world and can be observed like many other natural phenomena we don't look at directly. Without a chain of interactions this wouldn't be possible. What I mean is our reality is one of interactions. What is real to us, and what can be called "existing" is what interacts directly or indirectly with our senses and our minds. What we mean by "nature" on a large scale is ultimately internal structure. Once we hit a level where internal structure doesn't make sense anymore, I'm not sure what we are looking at and what the word "nature" can be made to encompass.

by danbruc 12y ago

snarfy 12y ago

Why are all electrons the same? It's because they are all manifestations of the same electric field. But then what is the electric field? Yep, it's a rabbit hole.

thibauts 12y ago

Maybe asking what things REALLY are has no meaning. Do objects have characteristics apart from what we can (physically) interact with and measure ? If thoses characteristics exist but aren't measurable can we say they are real ? Does it make any sense ? I often use this line of thought to talk about God with open-minded believers. If there is a God that created our reality and acts on it, then the effects of these actions are real in our sense and thus measurable. It then follows that God isn't separate from the natural world and can be observed like many other natural phenomena we don't look at directly. Without a chain of interactions this wouldn't be possible. What I mean is our reality is one of interactions. What is real to us, and what can be called "existing" is what interacts directly or indirectly with our senses and our minds. What we mean by "nature" on a large scale is ultimately internal structure. Once we hit a level where internal structure doesn't make sense anymore, I'm not sure what we are looking at and what the word "nature" can be made to encompass.