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Every DBA knows that there is no point in doing backup if you can't do the restore. Have they revived anyone yet? Even more to the point, why would they revive

by annnnd 12y ago

Every DBA knows that there is no point in doing backup if you can't do the restore. Have they revived anyone yet? Even more to the point, why would they revive you? You already paid them.

ekianjo 12y ago
> Even more to the point, why would they revive you? You already paid them. Agree, there's not much incentive. Plus let's say you wake up as an old man 100 years from now, who is going to take care of your daily needs ? Your immediate family will be long gone, your descendants probably won't care about you, and your skills from 100 years ago will be irrelevant. What a life!
- superasn 12y ago
  And what if your brain can still feel stuff and you're in a state of extreme discomfort for the next 100 years and since you're frozen you can't make it stop.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    That would be very creepy indeed. But I guess at frozen temperatures, your brain activity would be nothing like at 20C, so I'm not sure how large is that risk - people who have been found frozen in avalanches usually (if I remember correctly) did not report they an horrible experience of being frozen when they came back to life.
    - pedrosorio 12y ago
      I am not saying it is the case, but awareness does not imply memorization (which, if you think about it, is terrifying). See, for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683150/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683150/
  - blueskin_ 12y ago
    The brain has no electrical activity, so physically impossible (alternatively, if it's possible in a cryonics patient, it would happen in a normal corpse too, in which case people should stop burning/burying them).
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  If you go for neuropreservation, you get a new body (although it possibly means revival later than whole body patient preserved at the same time). As most Alcor patients will die while very old as dying young is generally due to accident or disease (Alcor do have some younger patients, who mostly had terminal illnesses, cancer, or conditions such as AIDS, but also one suicide and one murder victim), it makes sense. It's a common idea to go for whole body while still young, then switch to neuropreservation as you get old where your body would be useless/detrimental if preserved. This also negates the problem of inflation meaning you suddenly aren't insured for enough money for a whole-body preservation too.
kubiiii 12y ago
Plus what companies from 50 years ago are still around?
- onedev 12y ago
  No matter what happens, we can rest assured that IBM will be around.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  It's not because companies disappear that assets do. Buildings, machineries, lands, are passed on to new owners. Now I'm not sure in which category of assets "frozen dead body" falls into, though.
  - teddyh 12y ago
    A frozen body is a liability to owners – there is every incentive for them to lose it or otherwise facilitate its loss. There is also no drawback, as there is no one who would notice or complain if they do.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      Not sure... if you have a famous frozen person and the technology to unfreeze people ever comes to be, you could make money on "reviving a legend", kickstarter style, to recover the costs involved during the years.
      - teddyh 12y ago
        Fine – that frozen body is an asset. But any random frozen body is not.
        blueskin_ 12y ago
        Not only are they in a contract, but Alcor is only going to be staffed by people committed to advancing the cause of cryonics. They don't have some shady fly by night low bidder maintaining their patients.
apsec112 12y ago
Demanding a particular form of proof, and one which might be impossible to get even if we knew for sure that cryonics perfectly preserved the brain, is a logical fallacy. It's the same type of argument creationists make when they demand biologists give them video footage of monkeys evolving into humans. See eg. http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ph/youre_entitled_to_arguments_but_not_that/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ph/youre_entitled_to_arguments_but_....
- annnnd 12y ago
  I never did that - they just need to prove that reviving (which is the end goal I suppose) is possible. I really don't care how they prove it, I just suggested a pretty good way (IMHO). Also, did anyone read Pet Cemetary? Yeah, it would be nice to be revived, but in what condition?
  - blueskin_ 12y ago
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781097/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781097/ tl;dr: A rabbit kidney was vitrified, then revived and successfully implanted into another rabbit which remained healthy.
blueskin_ 12y ago
Because they are a non-profit organisation dedicated to advancing the state of life extension via cryonics as their entire goal. They aren't some shady for-profit scheme.
blueskin_ 12y ago
Every DBA knows that in its most basic form, a database is just a big text file. It's the same with a human's memory/personality. Just bits in a brain.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > It's the same with a human's memory/personality. Just bits in a brain. We barely know how memory works. It is fantastically simplistic to suggest that personality is "just bits in a brain".
- krisdol 12y ago
  If you don't know how to decompress data, you can't know that your compression is preserving all of the original information. If you backup a system but can't restore from it, you can't know that your backup has enough information to restore from. Same goes for this junk.

by annnnd 12y ago

Every DBA knows that there is no point in doing backup if you can't do the restore. Have they revived anyone yet? Even more to the point, why would they revive you? You already paid them.

ekianjo 12y ago

> Even more to the point, why would they revive you? You already paid them. Agree, there's not much incentive. Plus let's say you wake up as an old man 100 years from now, who is going to take care of your daily needs ? Your immediate family will be long gone, your descendants probably won't care about you, and your skills from 100 years ago will be irrelevant. What a life!

superasn 12y ago
And what if your brain can still feel stuff and you're in a state of extreme discomfort for the next 100 years and since you're frozen you can't make it stop.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  That would be very creepy indeed. But I guess at frozen temperatures, your brain activity would be nothing like at 20C, so I'm not sure how large is that risk - people who have been found frozen in avalanches usually (if I remember correctly) did not report they an horrible experience of being frozen when they came back to life.
  - pedrosorio 12y ago
    I am not saying it is the case, but awareness does not imply memorization (which, if you think about it, is terrifying). See, for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683150/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683150/
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  The brain has no electrical activity, so physically impossible (alternatively, if it's possible in a cryonics patient, it would happen in a normal corpse too, in which case people should stop burning/burying them).
blueskin_ 12y ago
If you go for neuropreservation, you get a new body (although it possibly means revival later than whole body patient preserved at the same time). As most Alcor patients will die while very old as dying young is generally due to accident or disease (Alcor do have some younger patients, who mostly had terminal illnesses, cancer, or conditions such as AIDS, but also one suicide and one murder victim), it makes sense. It's a common idea to go for whole body while still young, then switch to neuropreservation as you get old where your body would be useless/detrimental if preserved. This also negates the problem of inflation meaning you suddenly aren't insured for enough money for a whole-body preservation too.

kubiiii 12y ago

Plus what companies from 50 years ago are still around?

onedev 12y ago
No matter what happens, we can rest assured that IBM will be around.
ekianjo 12y ago
It's not because companies disappear that assets do. Buildings, machineries, lands, are passed on to new owners. Now I'm not sure in which category of assets "frozen dead body" falls into, though.
- teddyh 12y ago
  A frozen body is a liability to owners – there is every incentive for them to lose it or otherwise facilitate its loss. There is also no drawback, as there is no one who would notice or complain if they do.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    Not sure... if you have a famous frozen person and the technology to unfreeze people ever comes to be, you could make money on "reviving a legend", kickstarter style, to recover the costs involved during the years.
    - teddyh 12y ago
      Fine – that frozen body is an asset. But any random frozen body is not.
      - blueskin_ 12y ago
        Not only are they in a contract, but Alcor is only going to be staffed by people committed to advancing the cause of cryonics. They don't have some shady fly by night low bidder maintaining their patients.

apsec112 12y ago

Demanding a particular form of proof, and one which might be impossible to get even if we knew for sure that cryonics perfectly preserved the brain, is a logical fallacy. It's the same type of argument creationists make when they demand biologists give them video footage of monkeys evolving into humans. See eg. http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ph/youre_entitled_to_arguments_but_not_that/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ph/youre_entitled_to_arguments_but_....

annnnd 12y ago
I never did that - they just need to prove that reviving (which is the end goal I suppose) is possible. I really don't care how they prove it, I just suggested a pretty good way (IMHO). Also, did anyone read Pet Cemetary? Yeah, it would be nice to be revived, but in what condition?
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781097/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781097/ tl;dr: A rabbit kidney was vitrified, then revived and successfully implanted into another rabbit which remained healthy.

blueskin_ 12y ago

Because they are a non-profit organisation dedicated to advancing the state of life extension via cryonics as their entire goal. They aren't some shady for-profit scheme.

blueskin_ 12y ago

Every DBA knows that in its most basic form, a database is just a big text file. It's the same with a human's memory/personality. Just bits in a brain.

DanBC 12y ago
> It's the same with a human's memory/personality. Just bits in a brain. We barely know how memory works. It is fantastically simplistic to suggest that personality is "just bits in a brain".
krisdol 12y ago
If you don't know how to decompress data, you can't know that your compression is preserving all of the original information. If you backup a system but can't restore from it, you can't know that your backup has enough information to restore from. Same goes for this junk.