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I honestly don't comprehend why the prototypical HNer (in their 20s, working as a developer) doesn't have a year or two of expenses saved up. It should be trivi

I honestly don't comprehend why the prototypical HNer (in their 20s, working as a developer) doesn't have a year or two of expenses saved up. It should be trivial.

lukeqsee 12y ago
> a year or two of expenses saved up. Expenses is the keyword, I think. Most prototypical HNers live life well above what they could live at (e.g., less organically-grown gourmet coffee and more rice). A year or two of true, necessary expenses could be closer to 6 months of income for many here.
- morgante 12y ago
  Agreed. If there were a scenario where one had to use those expenses for years, I'd expect them to relocate to a lower COL area (ie. not SF) and adopt a somewhat humbler lifestyle. $100k would last a long time in that situation, and it should be well within the ability of most HNers to save up $100k before they're 30.
yen223 12y ago
Because not every developer makes a lot of money.
- morgante 12y ago
  > Because not every developer makes a lot of money. The prototypical HNer is a good developer. Good developers make a lot of money unless they're making terrible work decisions.
  - minikomi 12y ago
    Like living in Tokyo?
    - yen223 12y ago
      Like not being born in a first-world country basically.
      - morgante 12y ago
        I'm well aware that there is some diversity in this community—I was just referring to the prototypical HNer who's a SV programmer in their 20s.
        brightsize 12y ago
        I'm not sure how typical that is. It would be interesting to know the demographics of age, occupations, and locations of HNers. One of the reasons that I come here is that I can almost always count on reading posts from non-startup, non-computer-tech, smart and interesting people who have knowledge and viewpoints to share about a wide variety of topics. Just today there were posts to another thread by astronomers and physicists, possibly in their 20s but just as likely not, and unlikely (I would think) to be in SV. My impression is that there's not some diversity here, but a great deal of it, and it's not limited to tech people.
  - brightsize 12y ago
    Like living far from a startup hub in a small city with not much of a tech economy? I think I've made an excellent work decision. It's extremely cheap to live here. I could easily survive on <$20K/yr, far less actually. You can have the high-expense/high-stress wage-slave life to get your $100K/yr. I'll pass.
Vigil 12y ago
Student loans are a thing, unfortunately.
- morgante 12y ago
  > Student loans are a thing, unfortunately. Average student loan debt is $29,400. For what most developers make, that should be easy to pay off within a year or two.
  - Hytosys 12y ago
    I have a student loan to pay off that's around that amount, and I was employed at a web startup right out of school making a whopping $42,000/yr after taxes. California rent is $1,000/mo. If I paid the whole loan off in a year, I'd be in the negative after interest. For what it's worth, I did quit; partially because the pay was so low for the 55 hours of week they expected developers to put in. I know this is only anecdotal, but shit does indeed happen.
    - morgante 12y ago
      > For what it's worth, I did quit; partially because the pay was so low for the 55 hours of week they expected developers to put in. Agreed. That's outrageously low, and you definitely made the right choice in quitting.
  - kenrikm 12y ago
    After Taxes (federal) Taxes (state) and Rent (insane) more then half of that 100k you reference is gone. Without a gold spoon it's not as easy as you make it seem. Food for thought, I had more disposable income making 65k/Year in Florida then I do making Far more in the Bay Area. I'm not saying that there are not benefits to living here but it's not a golden ticket. Also, clearly you don't have a family to support.
    - morgante 12y ago
      > Also, clearly you don't have a family to support. Nor does the prototypical HNer. Though I am helping my dad buy a house. > Without a gold spoon it's not as easy as you make it seem. What do you mean? I definitely don't have a golden/silver spoon, but have been able to save up a good amount despite ludicrous NYC living & taxes.
rewind 12y ago
The prototypical HNer is probably trying to start a business or passionately underpaid at a starup and making a fraction of what they would get paid working a normal job. Yeah, trivial.
- morgante 12y ago
  > The prototypical HNer is probably trying to start a business or passionately underpaid at a starup and making a fraction of what they would get paid working a normal job. Yeah, trivial. I myself work at an early stage startup which I'm very passionate about. I still expect to get paid competitively. If you're the prototypical HNer (read: good developer) and you're getting paid under $100k, then you're messing things up. As for starting a business, by far the most viable path is to do it in your free time until it either: (a) generates revenue you could live off or (b) has enough traction for meaningful VC.

I honestly don't comprehend why the prototypical HNer (in their 20s, working as a developer) doesn't have a year or two of expenses saved up. It should be trivial.

lukeqsee 12y ago

> a year or two of expenses saved up. Expenses is the keyword, I think. Most prototypical HNers live life well above what they could live at (e.g., less organically-grown gourmet coffee and more rice). A year or two of true, necessary expenses could be closer to 6 months of income for many here.

morgante 12y ago
Agreed. If there were a scenario where one had to use those expenses for years, I'd expect them to relocate to a lower COL area (ie. not SF) and adopt a somewhat humbler lifestyle. $100k would last a long time in that situation, and it should be well within the ability of most HNers to save up $100k before they're 30.

yen223 12y ago

Because not every developer makes a lot of money.

morgante 12y ago
> Because not every developer makes a lot of money. The prototypical HNer is a good developer. Good developers make a lot of money unless they're making terrible work decisions.
- minikomi 12y ago
  Like living in Tokyo?
  - yen223 12y ago
    Like not being born in a first-world country basically.
    - morgante 12y ago
      I'm well aware that there is some diversity in this community—I was just referring to the prototypical HNer who's a SV programmer in their 20s.
      - brightsize 12y ago
        I'm not sure how typical that is. It would be interesting to know the demographics of age, occupations, and locations of HNers. One of the reasons that I come here is that I can almost always count on reading posts from non-startup, non-computer-tech, smart and interesting people who have knowledge and viewpoints to share about a wide variety of topics. Just today there were posts to another thread by astronomers and physicists, possibly in their 20s but just as likely not, and unlikely (I would think) to be in SV. My impression is that there's not some diversity here, but a great deal of it, and it's not limited to tech people.
- brightsize 12y ago
  Like living far from a startup hub in a small city with not much of a tech economy? I think I've made an excellent work decision. It's extremely cheap to live here. I could easily survive on <$20K/yr, far less actually. You can have the high-expense/high-stress wage-slave life to get your $100K/yr. I'll pass.

Vigil 12y ago

Student loans are a thing, unfortunately.

morgante 12y ago
> Student loans are a thing, unfortunately. Average student loan debt is $29,400. For what most developers make, that should be easy to pay off within a year or two.
- Hytosys 12y ago
  I have a student loan to pay off that's around that amount, and I was employed at a web startup right out of school making a whopping $42,000/yr after taxes. California rent is $1,000/mo. If I paid the whole loan off in a year, I'd be in the negative after interest. For what it's worth, I did quit; partially because the pay was so low for the 55 hours of week they expected developers to put in. I know this is only anecdotal, but shit does indeed happen.
  - morgante 12y ago
    > For what it's worth, I did quit; partially because the pay was so low for the 55 hours of week they expected developers to put in. Agreed. That's outrageously low, and you definitely made the right choice in quitting.
- kenrikm 12y ago
  After Taxes (federal) Taxes (state) and Rent (insane) more then half of that 100k you reference is gone. Without a gold spoon it's not as easy as you make it seem. Food for thought, I had more disposable income making 65k/Year in Florida then I do making Far more in the Bay Area. I'm not saying that there are not benefits to living here but it's not a golden ticket. Also, clearly you don't have a family to support.
  - morgante 12y ago
    > Also, clearly you don't have a family to support. Nor does the prototypical HNer. Though I am helping my dad buy a house. > Without a gold spoon it's not as easy as you make it seem. What do you mean? I definitely don't have a golden/silver spoon, but have been able to save up a good amount despite ludicrous NYC living & taxes.

rewind 12y ago

The prototypical HNer is probably trying to start a business or passionately underpaid at a starup and making a fraction of what they would get paid working a normal job. Yeah, trivial.

morgante 12y ago
> The prototypical HNer is probably trying to start a business or passionately underpaid at a starup and making a fraction of what they would get paid working a normal job. Yeah, trivial. I myself work at an early stage startup which I'm very passionate about. I still expect to get paid competitively. If you're the prototypical HNer (read: good developer) and you're getting paid under $100k, then you're messing things up. As for starting a business, by far the most viable path is to do it in your free time until it either: (a) generates revenue you could live off or (b) has enough traction for meaningful VC.