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I do think you are misinterpreting the author. 1. She states very clearly in the last line: this is a call to action to review the language in reviews for for

I do think you are misinterpreting the author. 1. She states very clearly in the last line: this is a call to action to review the language in reviews for for bias, not just the scores. 2. I can see you and others here very willing to accept the possibility that women just are more aggressive and that worries me about potential bias far more than this study does. Do you see that in yourself? To be fair to you, I see in myself the bias to believe what I read here because it is absolutely consistent with my experience. If you do too (i.e. you believe women in tech/business are somehow more aggressive, out of gender norm, etc) then that is a perfect reason to step back for a minute and examine your perceptions. 3. As you state above, non aggressive women never getting hired--one possible reason could be, as others have stated is that non aggressive women do not have the emotional or financial resources to withstand the cultural assault of doing something outside of gender norms. Do you see why that's a problem? Why the stereotypes of behavior in tech/business that are predominantly male are so damaging? And why it would be so important to look at the language used here? 4. Honestly, now, are you not struck by the difference in tone in those reviews? Or do you truly believe the women's words were "deserved?" because that's the fundamental question that the author asks us to consider.

cperciva 12y ago
1. She states very clearly in the last line: this is a call to action to review the language in reviews for for bias, not just the scores. Right, and I'm taking that as saying "HR should look for bias in the language used in reviews because I think they will find it". 2. I can see you and others here very willing to accept the possibility that women just are more aggressive and that worries me about potential bias far more than this study does. Do you see that in yourself? Do I think that women in general are more aggressive than men? No. Do I think that women in tech fields are more aggressive than men? I don't have enough evidence to form an opinion about this, but given the challenges which women must overcome in order to succeed in tech fields, I think it's entirely possible that the less-aggressive women tend to get filtered out. 3. As you state above, non aggressive women never getting hired--one possible reason could be, as others have stated is that non aggressive women do not have the emotional or financial resources to withstand the cultural assault of doing something outside of gender norms. Do you see why that's a problem? Why the stereotypes of behavior in tech/business that are predominantly male are so damaging? And why it would be so important to look at the language used here? Absolutely. I'm not willing to jump to the conclusion that the reviews are wrong, though. are you not struck by the difference in tone in those reviews? Or do you truly believe the women's words were "deserved?" Given that I do not know the men or women in question, I am unable to form an opinion about whether the adjectives used to describe members of either gender were accurate.
- melindajb 12y ago
  I can see where you are coming from. I understand that innate perception, no matter how well intentioned, is a really hard thing to observe and think critically about in ourselves. I just want to ask you about the last line. you truly, truly have NO opinion about what you read there? you don't think there's anything amiss or disturbing at all about the apparent pattern? I confess based on that and your answer to #3, you sound a bit, well like a robot--someone so deeply embedded in your own logic that you cannot see the larger picture. I don't think you're a hopeless misogynist at all, but I do think you might be missing something.
  - dropit_sphere 12y ago
    Please be careful brandishing intellectual superweapons.
  - cperciva 12y ago
    I believe that if I have a bias, it is that I assume good faith. But I don't think this is an incorrect bias to have, given that my experience has been that most people act in good faith most of the time. I just want to ask you about the last line. you truly, truly have NO opinion about what you read there? About whether the individual reviews are accurate? Only that it is most likely that the reviewers were not deliberately skewing their reviews in any direction. you don't think there's anything amiss or disturbing at all about the apparent pattern? Much to the contrary, it is very clear that there is a problem. What concerns me most is the possibility that the reviews are completely accurate -- since that would indicate that there is a large pool of less-aggressive women who are being overlooked during hiring or discouraged from entering the field. you sound a bit, well like a robot A past girlfriend told me that I reminded her of ST:TNG's Commander Data. I decided to take this as a compliment. I don't think she meant it as one.

cperciva 12y ago

1. She states very clearly in the last line: this is a call to action to review the language in reviews for for bias, not just the scores. Right, and I'm taking that as saying "HR should look for bias in the language used in reviews because I think they will find it". 2. I can see you and others here very willing to accept the possibility that women just are more aggressive and that worries me about potential bias far more than this study does. Do you see that in yourself? Do I think that women in general are more aggressive than men? No. Do I think that women in tech fields are more aggressive than men? I don't have enough evidence to form an opinion about this, but given the challenges which women must overcome in order to succeed in tech fields, I think it's entirely possible that the less-aggressive women tend to get filtered out. 3. As you state above, non aggressive women never getting hired--one possible reason could be, as others have stated is that non aggressive women do not have the emotional or financial resources to withstand the cultural assault of doing something outside of gender norms. Do you see why that's a problem? Why the stereotypes of behavior in tech/business that are predominantly male are so damaging? And why it would be so important to look at the language used here? Absolutely. I'm not willing to jump to the conclusion that the reviews are wrong, though. are you not struck by the difference in tone in those reviews? Or do you truly believe the women's words were "deserved?" Given that I do not know the men or women in question, I am unable to form an opinion about whether the adjectives used to describe members of either gender were accurate.

melindajb 12y ago
I can see where you are coming from. I understand that innate perception, no matter how well intentioned, is a really hard thing to observe and think critically about in ourselves. I just want to ask you about the last line. you truly, truly have NO opinion about what you read there? you don't think there's anything amiss or disturbing at all about the apparent pattern? I confess based on that and your answer to #3, you sound a bit, well like a robot--someone so deeply embedded in your own logic that you cannot see the larger picture. I don't think you're a hopeless misogynist at all, but I do think you might be missing something.
- dropit_sphere 12y ago
  Please be careful brandishing intellectual superweapons.
- cperciva 12y ago
  I believe that if I have a bias, it is that I assume good faith. But I don't think this is an incorrect bias to have, given that my experience has been that most people act in good faith most of the time. I just want to ask you about the last line. you truly, truly have NO opinion about what you read there? About whether the individual reviews are accurate? Only that it is most likely that the reviewers were not deliberately skewing their reviews in any direction. you don't think there's anything amiss or disturbing at all about the apparent pattern? Much to the contrary, it is very clear that there is a problem. What concerns me most is the possibility that the reviews are completely accurate -- since that would indicate that there is a large pool of less-aggressive women who are being overlooked during hiring or discouraged from entering the field. you sound a bit, well like a robot A past girlfriend told me that I reminded her of ST:TNG's Commander Data. I decided to take this as a compliment. I don't think she meant it as one.