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Is this not the case for all "emerging markets"? This wouldn't be a story if Detroit had low crime, great infrastructure, low taxes, superb public transport, i

by hentrep 12y ago

Is this not the case for all "emerging markets"? This wouldn't be a story if Detroit had low crime, great infrastructure, low taxes, superb public transport, immaculate roads, and prestigious schools. All of the aforementioned would translate to increased costs of living. Is Dan Gilbert making money from this? Absolutely, but he's also the one that took on the initial risk. The cost for cheap, spacious housing and office space in Detroit is having to tolerate a phoenix city in the midst of an identity crisis; expecting something which resembles NYC or SF is silly. I grew up in Michigan and have been to Detroit numerous times, and what I've witnessed lately (in concentrated locations, of course) is exciting -- see http://techtowndetroit.org/ http://techtowndetroit.org/. Granted, there are certainly depressing and desolate areas of the city, but again that should be expected for a city that has seen massive emigration and decreased revenue. I am optimistic about the future of Detroit.

fennecfoxen 12y ago
There are a lot of differences between Detroit and a real emerging market. For one, higher minimum wages. For another, additional environmental and labor regulations (and while some of this may benefit society and some of it may not, much of it probably results in increased compliance costs.) For a third, a 41% corporate income tax rate (35% US + 6% Michigan, according to casual internet search). If you're going to pay the very high price of doing business in the US, it might be a better plan to locate yourself somewhere a little less wrecked where it actually buys you something.
- hentrep 12y ago
  "If you're going to pay the very high price of doing business in the US, it might be a better plan to locate yourself somewhere a little less wrecked where it actually buys you something." Your comparisons to traditional emerging markets are well taken, but your last sentence highlights my point perfectly. Detroit is much more than abandoned buildings and abject poverty. Of course those are the easiest things to focus on because they cater to strong emotions. Meanwhile, all of the positive aspects about Detroit are subsequently white-washed. Detroit is a massive city encompassing 143 square miles, and much of it is in dire condition, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep in mind that there are pockets of Detroit in which amazing people are building incredible and exciting things, typically in a highly bootstrapped fashion. Blanket statements like, "less wrecked" imply that Detroit in its entirety is wrecked. This is certainly not the case as illustrated by companies like Shinola and VC firms like Ludlow Ventures. For additional examples, see: http://www.growdetroit.com/detroit-startup-list/ http://www.growdetroit.com/detroit-startup-list/. Of course I am biased as a native Michigander, but for life in general I much prefer to focus on silver linings than frayed seams.
- freehunter 12y ago
  That's why the title say "America's emerging market", not "the best emerging market ever". You're commenting on an article called America's emerging market and complaining about the fact that America's emerging market is in America. Think about it.
  - gradstudent 12y ago
    Emerging suggests positive change currently and into the future. The only positive I can see from the story is cheap real-estate? There's no indicator, in the article at least, that anything is happening in Detroit to turn around job prospects since the car industry keeled over. So you wouldn't go there for work. Also, according to protonfish, Detroit has terrible infrastructure and sounds like a shitty place to live. So you wouldn't go there for the lifestyle. All of which leaves me wondering: what's so great about Detroit that it should be considered an emerging market?
    - personZ 12y ago
      Aside from the Detroit car industry doing quite well, I have to comment on - "Also, according to protonfish, Detroit has terrible infrastructure and sounds like a shitty place to live." Just to contrast here, protonfish questions the motives of a billionaire who has moved thousands of his own employees, and made significant investments, in downtown Detroit. A man who, despite the financial capacity to live anywhere in the world, lives in Detroit. Invests in Detroit. Believes in Detroit. Isn't that an incredible contrast? On the one hand you have someone taking strong actions, and on the other you have someone posting a comment on a message board. And you believe the guy posting on a message board? I doubt protonfish knows anything about Detroit beyond some ruin porn they saw on a Reddit post.
      - freehunter 12y ago
        Hell, I bought my car because it was made in Detroit (I was born and raised in Michigan). 'Imported from Detroit' is a hell of a marketing message for Fiat/Chrysler to make.
Spooky23 12y ago
A city is a community with interconnecting personal and business relationships. The whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts. The inhabitants of Detroit are a declining auto industry and people with nowhere else to go. Vibrant cities attract people in spite of their limitations. Detroit is defined by them. The best thing for Detroit would be to de-incorporate and start afresh.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

by hentrep 12y ago

fennecfoxen 12y ago

There are a lot of differences between Detroit and a real emerging market. For one, higher minimum wages. For another, additional environmental and labor regulations (and while some of this may benefit society and some of it may not, much of it probably results in increased compliance costs.) For a third, a 41% corporate income tax rate (35% US + 6% Michigan, according to casual internet search). If you're going to pay the very high price of doing business in the US, it might be a better plan to locate yourself somewhere a little less wrecked where it actually buys you something.

hentrep 12y ago
"If you're going to pay the very high price of doing business in the US, it might be a better plan to locate yourself somewhere a little less wrecked where it actually buys you something." Your comparisons to traditional emerging markets are well taken, but your last sentence highlights my point perfectly. Detroit is much more than abandoned buildings and abject poverty. Of course those are the easiest things to focus on because they cater to strong emotions. Meanwhile, all of the positive aspects about Detroit are subsequently white-washed. Detroit is a massive city encompassing 143 square miles, and much of it is in dire condition, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep in mind that there are pockets of Detroit in which amazing people are building incredible and exciting things, typically in a highly bootstrapped fashion. Blanket statements like, "less wrecked" imply that Detroit in its entirety is wrecked. This is certainly not the case as illustrated by companies like Shinola and VC firms like Ludlow Ventures. For additional examples, see: http://www.growdetroit.com/detroit-startup-list/ http://www.growdetroit.com/detroit-startup-list/. Of course I am biased as a native Michigander, but for life in general I much prefer to focus on silver linings than frayed seams.
freehunter 12y ago
That's why the title say "America's emerging market", not "the best emerging market ever". You're commenting on an article called America's emerging market and complaining about the fact that America's emerging market is in America. Think about it.
- gradstudent 12y ago
  Emerging suggests positive change currently and into the future. The only positive I can see from the story is cheap real-estate? There's no indicator, in the article at least, that anything is happening in Detroit to turn around job prospects since the car industry keeled over. So you wouldn't go there for work. Also, according to protonfish, Detroit has terrible infrastructure and sounds like a shitty place to live. So you wouldn't go there for the lifestyle. All of which leaves me wondering: what's so great about Detroit that it should be considered an emerging market?
  - personZ 12y ago
    Aside from the Detroit car industry doing quite well, I have to comment on - "Also, according to protonfish, Detroit has terrible infrastructure and sounds like a shitty place to live." Just to contrast here, protonfish questions the motives of a billionaire who has moved thousands of his own employees, and made significant investments, in downtown Detroit. A man who, despite the financial capacity to live anywhere in the world, lives in Detroit. Invests in Detroit. Believes in Detroit. Isn't that an incredible contrast? On the one hand you have someone taking strong actions, and on the other you have someone posting a comment on a message board. And you believe the guy posting on a message board? I doubt protonfish knows anything about Detroit beyond some ruin porn they saw on a Reddit post.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      Hell, I bought my car because it was made in Detroit (I was born and raised in Michigan). 'Imported from Detroit' is a hell of a marketing message for Fiat/Chrysler to make.

Spooky23 12y ago

A city is a community with interconnecting personal and business relationships. The whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts. The inhabitants of Detroit are a declining auto industry and people with nowhere else to go. Vibrant cities attract people in spite of their limitations. Detroit is defined by them. The best thing for Detroit would be to de-incorporate and start afresh.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]