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"You might want to check that." You are correct. I should have said "Most colleges I considered when starting my degree". Look, we might have to agree to disa

"You might want to check that." You are correct. I should have said "Most colleges I considered when starting my degree". Look, we might have to agree to disagree. What I think, and what the one Computer Science Department Head I spoke to thought, is that Computer Science is math. Period. Just like a degree in Math, it does not have to have a directly practical application to serve a purpose. The fact that we have machines that run these theories is purely a sideline to the theories themselves. "A theoretician operating without any input from the practical world is a theoretician wasting his or her time, producing theories that will ultimately not even be of academic interest." I'm sorry, but many many theories that have become helpful for practical purposes were created by someone 100s of years before who didn't have any "practical consideratinos". Just because something isn't useful NOW or even in our lifetime, doesn't mean it isn't useful. Quite frankly, I think programming (distinct from computer science) should go back to an apprenticeship based program if we can make that sustainable, and computer science (as in the degree program) should be kept where it is: Mostly theorectical with a minor side of practicality occasionally. Sure programmers sometimes need to understand Computer Science theory, but most of what the average programmer needs to know about it does not require a degree but simply reading a book or three.

tjr 12y ago
"Computer science" tends to be a pretty ambiguously-defined term, largely because it's a pretty awful term. Everything from AS/400 business programming to combinatorial mathematics could be plausibly lumped under "computer science". My anecdotal experience seems to match jerf's: I can't think of any undergraduate computer science program that appeared to favor math over at least moderately practical topics. But I've also not seen any undergraduate computer science program that appeared to be job training. A local community college offers an associate's degree in "computer programming", and their graduates strike me as more obviously employable in the real world than area university computer science graduates. They learn skills that are known to be desired by major area employers, and the program seems to carry more of a "this is all about getting a job" sort of attitude.
jerf 12y ago
"The fact that we have machines that run these theories is purely a sideline to the theories themselves." I'm not sure you got my point entirely. If you've got a machine sitting there than can help you, you should use it. If you're going to write about operating systems, you're an academic fool if you don't also actually take some time to gain some real experience on the very-cheap systems that can help validate that you actually do understand what you're learning about. If you're going to do AI, you're an academic fool if you don't take the time to implement some of your theories and see how they actually perform. Who cares what someone hypothesizes may work in the field of computer vision if they have no implementation? And so on and so forth. Even if it is just math, you are an idiot if you pass up the opportunity to implement something to verify your theories. And the result will be courses, especially at the undergraduate level, that turn out to be useful both for academics, and for programmers who want to learn how to write theoretically grounded code. Which, remarkably, is exactly what we actually have. You are not benefiting by trying to split academics off from practice. It's a stupid idea and a stupid ideal. It isn't a win for anybody.
- mordocai 12y ago
  And you are a fool if you dismiss people/ideas simply because you don't feel they are practical. Sure, don't try to use them in your business. However, many many very useful and practical things have come out of these impractical theories and people who never try to practically prove anything or use their theories. It is a win for everybody to have at least some subset of people who do pure theoretics. That being said, as already stated, you shouldn't be going into these types of programs if your end goal is to get a job in the industry.

tjr 12y ago

"Computer science" tends to be a pretty ambiguously-defined term, largely because it's a pretty awful term. Everything from AS/400 business programming to combinatorial mathematics could be plausibly lumped under "computer science". My anecdotal experience seems to match jerf's: I can't think of any undergraduate computer science program that appeared to favor math over at least moderately practical topics. But I've also not seen any undergraduate computer science program that appeared to be job training. A local community college offers an associate's degree in "computer programming", and their graduates strike me as more obviously employable in the real world than area university computer science graduates. They learn skills that are known to be desired by major area employers, and the program seems to carry more of a "this is all about getting a job" sort of attitude.

jerf 12y ago

"The fact that we have machines that run these theories is purely a sideline to the theories themselves." I'm not sure you got my point entirely. If you've got a machine sitting there than can help you, you should use it. If you're going to write about operating systems, you're an academic fool if you don't also actually take some time to gain some real experience on the very-cheap systems that can help validate that you actually do understand what you're learning about. If you're going to do AI, you're an academic fool if you don't take the time to implement some of your theories and see how they actually perform. Who cares what someone hypothesizes may work in the field of computer vision if they have no implementation? And so on and so forth. Even if it is just math, you are an idiot if you pass up the opportunity to implement something to verify your theories. And the result will be courses, especially at the undergraduate level, that turn out to be useful both for academics, and for programmers who want to learn how to write theoretically grounded code. Which, remarkably, is exactly what we actually have. You are not benefiting by trying to split academics off from practice. It's a stupid idea and a stupid ideal. It isn't a win for anybody.

mordocai 12y ago
And you are a fool if you dismiss people/ideas simply because you don't feel they are practical. Sure, don't try to use them in your business. However, many many very useful and practical things have come out of these impractical theories and people who never try to practically prove anything or use their theories. It is a win for everybody to have at least some subset of people who do pure theoretics. That being said, as already stated, you shouldn't be going into these types of programs if your end goal is to get a job in the industry.