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A somewhat related question: I'm about to start a job at a company with "open office" structure, after having my own office for the last 4 years. Anything I sho

by 11001 12y ago

A somewhat related question: I'm about to start a job at a company with "open office" structure, after having my own office for the last 4 years. Anything I should be prepared for? EDIT: Any headphones suggestions?

getsat 12y ago
Your productivity to potentially go down a lot.
- georgemcbay 12y ago
  I wish I could upvote this 10 times. I've worked in both environments and my productivity (not to mention my morale, overall happiness, etc, which are likely related) were much, much higher in a non-open seating environment. Even shared offices (2 people to an office) were far better -- still much easier to avoid distractions because you don't get cafeteria-style escalation of volumes from different conversations and people are far more likely to be sound-considerate in a 2 person setting (especially if both are developers... don't mix devs with sales). It is virtually impossible for me to hit real states of "flow" in an open office. Unfortunately the industry has gone bonkers and it is really difficult to find developer jobs that aren't using open office layouts anymore. I'm at the point now though where the next time I am looking for a job I will assign a lot of value to any company that provides real offices or allows nearly full-time remote work.
  - drstewart 12y ago
    I've also worked in both, and have been far (far) happier in an open office layout, to the point where I'll never work in a closed-door office layout again. It's so isolating and depressing to me. Sure, I could get into a flow -- that's all I could do. I'd go to work and work for 8 hours a day, not talking to anyone. A pretty miserable existence. Also why I could never work remotely/from home, I guess.
protonfish 12y ago
Unhappiness.
frankwiles 12y ago
Buy some really nice noise canceling headphones is definitely top of the preparation list. You'll be wearing them 80+% of your day.
- protonfish 12y ago
  I have found that whatever peace blocking noise gives you, it is more than offset by the paranoia of being watched or the terror of people sneaking up behind you.
  - jug6ernaut 12y ago
    I have had this happen to me a few times. Really into my work with my ear phones & music playing, can hear nothing besides my music. Turn to the side and my co-worker is there waiting on me to go over something. Scares the *$#$ at of me every time.
  - jcl 12y ago
    FWIW, I've seen some people attach a small convex mirror to the edge of their monitor to avoid this kind of surprise. I'd expect this is just trading audio distractions for visual ones, though.
  - BSousa 12y ago
    This a million times. For me visual distractions (even if it is just people walking) are a lot worse than noise. I can tune out the chatter but whenever I feel or see movement around me, my head snaps to attention to find out what it is. Some evolutionary thing most likely
    - protonfish 12y ago
      Maybe we could invent sight-cancelling glasses to go with the headphones?
      - bashinator 12y ago
        Blinders. You're thinking of blinders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_%28horse_tack%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_%28horse_tack%29
throwaway7808 12y ago
It depends. Are you a manager, or PM and is your main responsibility to socialize and play the game? If yes, it is gonna be great! The game is a lot more engaging with the "open office" structure. Are you an engineer? Well... sorry. You'll have to sit in the headphones now. Get a pair of some good ones.
owenmarshall 12y ago
Want a quick heuristic to know who matters in the company? Watch the people that steal the conference rooms every day to do work. Make friends with them.
walshemj 12y ago
More Distractions - get a good pair of headphones some people swear by those noise cancelling ones.
- swah 12y ago
  Parent probably talking about Bose QC-15 mythical noise cancelling headphones. Some people say their build quality is meh, which prevented me from buying them.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    I have never tried them. A £10 pair or cheap sonys from the local hifi shop was the ones I used at my last workplace.
jug6ernaut 12y ago
Get a good pair of over ear noise canceling headphones that are light. In-Ear work well but will probably start hurting you ears if you wear them for an extended period of time.
incision 12y ago
* On top of the direct impact of interruptions and distractions, you'll want to be aware of the way you are seen to react to them. Pay attention to who the rest of the office does or doesn't attend to when that person decides to convene a huddle or start soapboxing - regardless of the topic Dutifully working away under your headphones when a ranking person is looking for attention is a great way to end up labeled in a bad way. * Don't mistake an open floor plan for an open structure. Be careful about who you accept work from / collaborate with / delegate to until you understand the landscape.
cokernel 12y ago
Having used both noise-canceling and noise-isolating headphones, I'd recommend going for noise-isolating headphones, at least if you expect office chatter to be your major irritant. Most active noise-canceling systems do best with constant sounds and not so well with random bursts of speech. I use Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro headphones and am pretty happy with them. They don't provide complete isolation, but they do block out a lot of sound, and I don't need to play constant music to make up for bad noise cancellation. For a cheaper solution, wear earplugs and just put on some crappy headphones for the visual signal.
- bellerocky 12y ago
  When I worked at a big company with an open office wore ear plugs while also wearing earphones, on really high volume. It was like I had my own office.
colinloretz 12y ago
Check out the various levels of headphones on The Wirecutter. http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/headphones/ http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/headphones/ I use the Sony MDR-7506 which are rated as the best $150 Over Ear Headphones (actually $90ish on Amazon) and they are very popular with audio pros. Not noise canceling but they are comfortable enough for wearing all day and if you're listening to something, you don't have sound leaking in or out.
- icpmacdo 12y ago
  I have them also, you might want to look to get some replacement ear pads http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Velour-Earcushions-MDR7506-Headphones/dp/B0016MF7W2?&tag=rnwap-20 http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Velour-Earcushions-MDR750...
  - acomjean 12y ago
    I have the twin headphone Sony-MDRV6. They are awesome, but suffer from the same earpad issue. I've had them for 10 years now (yikes). The earpads will go and start flaking (for me after 5 years). They are easy to replace though.
    - alabut 12y ago
      Yeah, the MDRV6 with Beyerdynamic Velour earcushions are my secret sauce for getting in the zone. The stock pleather earpads will give you "hot ears" that make long shifts uncomfortable. If you keep going down the audiophile rabbit hole like I did, next up is a DAC or a tube amp. A good starter cheap one (sub $100) is the Qinpu: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGDB9Q/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGDB9Q/
  - geoelectric 12y ago
    Yes, the ear pads are a big improvement on the V6s/7506s for sure.
- chaddeshon 12y ago
  Yes. These are great. By far the best I have used. Better than many that are way more expensive.
driverdan 12y ago
For headphones check out http://www.head-fi.org/ http://www.head-fi.org/
- Artemis2 12y ago
  /r/headphones [1] is very welcoming too. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones
Spoom 12y ago
I recommend a good pair of in-ear monitors like the UE-900s[1] with some Comply Foam tips[2] for extra isolation. 1. http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s 2. http://www.complyfoam.com/products/Tx-200/ http://www.complyfoam.com/products/Tx-200/
rwallace 12y ago
Is it a case where you have to take the job because you need the money? If so, fair enough, but always remember 'have to take this job today' doesn't imply 'have to stay in it indefinitely'. Go ahead and start work in the open office, but in the meantime put out feelers, be quietly looking for a job that will give you a private office or let you work at home. The best situation in which to be looking for a job with your preferred conditions is one where you aren't desperate to find something quickly.
timcederman 12y ago
Bose QC-15. Pricey, but worth it.
- cmatteri 12y ago
  Does anyone have any thoughts on the comfort (for extended use in an office) and effectiveness of the QC-20 vs the QC-15. It seems the QC-20 is better on both counts, despite its in ear design. One downside to the QC-20 is that he battery isn't replaceable, but I plan to use them plugged in, so they should still work even when the battery can't hold much charge.
  - gesman 12y ago
    Anything in-ear or over-the-ear will start hurting your ear one way or another. Around the ear + active noise cancelling is the way to go. My choice is Bose Quiet Comfort 15. The guy behind me talks whole day explaining low level network connectivity issues to half of the world. The guy in front of me talks spanish to someone he loves non-stop for a few hours daily. Bose allows to handle it gracefully :)
swah 12y ago
Marco Arment recently posted this "mega review" of closed headphones http://www.marco.org/headphones-closed-portable http://www.marco.org/headphones-closed-portable I use the HF5 IEM which isolates perfectly with music/noise playing, but there is a problem: people talk to me as if I could listen to them :( I think that wouldn't happen if I had a big ass headphone.
- geoelectric 12y ago
  While well-written, his conclusions on a number of headphones (particularly the extreme love for the AKG K551s) seem a little idiosyncratic. It's worth cross-referencing any of his suggestions with head-fi or other review sources.

by 11001 12y ago

getsat 12y ago

Your productivity to potentially go down a lot.

georgemcbay 12y ago
I wish I could upvote this 10 times. I've worked in both environments and my productivity (not to mention my morale, overall happiness, etc, which are likely related) were much, much higher in a non-open seating environment. Even shared offices (2 people to an office) were far better -- still much easier to avoid distractions because you don't get cafeteria-style escalation of volumes from different conversations and people are far more likely to be sound-considerate in a 2 person setting (especially if both are developers... don't mix devs with sales). It is virtually impossible for me to hit real states of "flow" in an open office. Unfortunately the industry has gone bonkers and it is really difficult to find developer jobs that aren't using open office layouts anymore. I'm at the point now though where the next time I am looking for a job I will assign a lot of value to any company that provides real offices or allows nearly full-time remote work.
- drstewart 12y ago
  I've also worked in both, and have been far (far) happier in an open office layout, to the point where I'll never work in a closed-door office layout again. It's so isolating and depressing to me. Sure, I could get into a flow -- that's all I could do. I'd go to work and work for 8 hours a day, not talking to anyone. A pretty miserable existence. Also why I could never work remotely/from home, I guess.

protonfish 12y ago

Unhappiness.

frankwiles 12y ago

Buy some really nice noise canceling headphones is definitely top of the preparation list. You'll be wearing them 80+% of your day.

protonfish 12y ago
I have found that whatever peace blocking noise gives you, it is more than offset by the paranoia of being watched or the terror of people sneaking up behind you.
- jug6ernaut 12y ago
  I have had this happen to me a few times. Really into my work with my ear phones & music playing, can hear nothing besides my music. Turn to the side and my co-worker is there waiting on me to go over something. Scares the *$#$ at of me every time.
- jcl 12y ago
  FWIW, I've seen some people attach a small convex mirror to the edge of their monitor to avoid this kind of surprise. I'd expect this is just trading audio distractions for visual ones, though.
- BSousa 12y ago
  This a million times. For me visual distractions (even if it is just people walking) are a lot worse than noise. I can tune out the chatter but whenever I feel or see movement around me, my head snaps to attention to find out what it is. Some evolutionary thing most likely
  - protonfish 12y ago
    Maybe we could invent sight-cancelling glasses to go with the headphones?
    - bashinator 12y ago
      Blinders. You're thinking of blinders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_%28horse_tack%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_%28horse_tack%29

throwaway7808 12y ago

It depends. Are you a manager, or PM and is your main responsibility to socialize and play the game? If yes, it is gonna be great! The game is a lot more engaging with the "open office" structure. Are you an engineer? Well... sorry. You'll have to sit in the headphones now. Get a pair of some good ones.

owenmarshall 12y ago

Want a quick heuristic to know who matters in the company? Watch the people that steal the conference rooms every day to do work. Make friends with them.

walshemj 12y ago

More Distractions - get a good pair of headphones some people swear by those noise cancelling ones.

swah 12y ago
Parent probably talking about Bose QC-15 mythical noise cancelling headphones. Some people say their build quality is meh, which prevented me from buying them.
- walshemj 12y ago
  I have never tried them. A £10 pair or cheap sonys from the local hifi shop was the ones I used at my last workplace.

jug6ernaut 12y ago

Get a good pair of over ear noise canceling headphones that are light. In-Ear work well but will probably start hurting you ears if you wear them for an extended period of time.

incision 12y ago

* On top of the direct impact of interruptions and distractions, you'll want to be aware of the way you are seen to react to them. Pay attention to who the rest of the office does or doesn't attend to when that person decides to convene a huddle or start soapboxing - regardless of the topic Dutifully working away under your headphones when a ranking person is looking for attention is a great way to end up labeled in a bad way. * Don't mistake an open floor plan for an open structure. Be careful about who you accept work from / collaborate with / delegate to until you understand the landscape.

cokernel 12y ago

Having used both noise-canceling and noise-isolating headphones, I'd recommend going for noise-isolating headphones, at least if you expect office chatter to be your major irritant. Most active noise-canceling systems do best with constant sounds and not so well with random bursts of speech. I use Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro headphones and am pretty happy with them. They don't provide complete isolation, but they do block out a lot of sound, and I don't need to play constant music to make up for bad noise cancellation. For a cheaper solution, wear earplugs and just put on some crappy headphones for the visual signal.

bellerocky 12y ago
When I worked at a big company with an open office wore ear plugs while also wearing earphones, on really high volume. It was like I had my own office.

colinloretz 12y ago

Check out the various levels of headphones on The Wirecutter. http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/headphones/ http://thewirecutter.com/leaderboard/headphones/ I use the Sony MDR-7506 which are rated as the best $150 Over Ear Headphones (actually $90ish on Amazon) and they are very popular with audio pros. Not noise canceling but they are comfortable enough for wearing all day and if you're listening to something, you don't have sound leaking in or out.

icpmacdo 12y ago
I have them also, you might want to look to get some replacement ear pads http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Velour-Earcushions-MDR7506-Headphones/dp/B0016MF7W2?&tag=rnwap-20 http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Velour-Earcushions-MDR750...
- acomjean 12y ago
  I have the twin headphone Sony-MDRV6. They are awesome, but suffer from the same earpad issue. I've had them for 10 years now (yikes). The earpads will go and start flaking (for me after 5 years). They are easy to replace though.
  - alabut 12y ago
    Yeah, the MDRV6 with Beyerdynamic Velour earcushions are my secret sauce for getting in the zone. The stock pleather earpads will give you "hot ears" that make long shifts uncomfortable. If you keep going down the audiophile rabbit hole like I did, next up is a DAC or a tube amp. A good starter cheap one (sub $100) is the Qinpu: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGDB9Q/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TGDB9Q/
- geoelectric 12y ago
  Yes, the ear pads are a big improvement on the V6s/7506s for sure.
chaddeshon 12y ago
Yes. These are great. By far the best I have used. Better than many that are way more expensive.

driverdan 12y ago

For headphones check out http://www.head-fi.org/ http://www.head-fi.org/

Artemis2 12y ago
/r/headphones [1] is very welcoming too. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones

Spoom 12y ago

I recommend a good pair of in-ear monitors like the UE-900s[1] with some Comply Foam tips[2] for extra isolation. 1. http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s 2. http://www.complyfoam.com/products/Tx-200/ http://www.complyfoam.com/products/Tx-200/

rwallace 12y ago

Is it a case where you have to take the job because you need the money? If so, fair enough, but always remember 'have to take this job today' doesn't imply 'have to stay in it indefinitely'. Go ahead and start work in the open office, but in the meantime put out feelers, be quietly looking for a job that will give you a private office or let you work at home. The best situation in which to be looking for a job with your preferred conditions is one where you aren't desperate to find something quickly.

timcederman 12y ago

Bose QC-15. Pricey, but worth it.

cmatteri 12y ago
Does anyone have any thoughts on the comfort (for extended use in an office) and effectiveness of the QC-20 vs the QC-15. It seems the QC-20 is better on both counts, despite its in ear design. One downside to the QC-20 is that he battery isn't replaceable, but I plan to use them plugged in, so they should still work even when the battery can't hold much charge.
- gesman 12y ago
  Anything in-ear or over-the-ear will start hurting your ear one way or another. Around the ear + active noise cancelling is the way to go. My choice is Bose Quiet Comfort 15. The guy behind me talks whole day explaining low level network connectivity issues to half of the world. The guy in front of me talks spanish to someone he loves non-stop for a few hours daily. Bose allows to handle it gracefully :)

swah 12y ago

Marco Arment recently posted this "mega review" of closed headphones http://www.marco.org/headphones-closed-portable http://www.marco.org/headphones-closed-portable I use the HF5 IEM which isolates perfectly with music/noise playing, but there is a problem: people talk to me as if I could listen to them :( I think that wouldn't happen if I had a big ass headphone.

geoelectric 12y ago
While well-written, his conclusions on a number of headphones (particularly the extreme love for the AKG K551s) seem a little idiosyncratic. It's worth cross-referencing any of his suggestions with head-fi or other review sources.