4 ms·

The number of times they mention the insidious threat of the seething hacker horde of "Russians" makes me feel positively McCarthy-esque. Absurd.

jes 12y ago
With respect, there is reason to believe that McCarthy was not entirely wrong. The evils of communist governments are also beyond dispute, in my view. [1]. See the section on "Ongoing Debate", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy [2]. Communist governments have been among the greatest perpetrators of democide, with the PRC at ~76 million citizens murdered, and the USSR at ~62 million citizens murdered in the 20th century. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM [3]. This man, in his book "Disinformation," wrote that the USSR had more people involved in covert operations and disinformation campaigns than they had active intelligence agents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa
- pyre 12y ago
  > McCarthy was not entirely wrong So... it's a good thing to model "spy hunting" on the Salem Witch Trials? How is "a communist-spy around every corner" that much different than "report your neighbors for subversive/not-approved ideas, comrade?" Edit: Just think about pairing up McCarthy-ism and HUAC/SACB[1] with NSA-levels of data gathering today. Would it make the world a better place, or would it have a chilling effect on free speech / free exchange of ideas? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#HUAC_and_SACB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#HUAC_and_SACB
  - jes 12y ago
    Saying that McCarthy was not entirely wrong does not imply that I endorse every aspect of his behavior.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Sure. McCarthy was right that there were Soviet agents in America, and that there was a Soviet threat. But he was not the lone canary in the coal mine, blowing the whistle on Soviet deceptions. He is not known for being the voice of reason when few would believe the reality of the situation. He is known for leading/inspiring witch hunts for Soviet spies, and ruining people's lives based on coincidence and thought-crime. When you say he was "not entirely wrong" without qualification, it is these things that people feel are implicitly referred to by the statement.
eruditely 12y ago
I have seen grugq write that russia/china both have underground culture that are free from prosecution and free to do their own work, and US arrests their own and then has the other two assault it. probably a misquote but still something akin to that

jes 12y ago

With respect, there is reason to believe that McCarthy was not entirely wrong. The evils of communist governments are also beyond dispute, in my view. [1]. See the section on "Ongoing Debate", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy [2]. Communist governments have been among the greatest perpetrators of democide, with the PRC at ~76 million citizens murdered, and the USSR at ~62 million citizens murdered in the 20th century. https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM [3]. This man, in his book "Disinformation," wrote that the USSR had more people involved in covert operations and disinformation campaigns than they had active intelligence agents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa

pyre 12y ago
> McCarthy was not entirely wrong So... it's a good thing to model "spy hunting" on the Salem Witch Trials? How is "a communist-spy around every corner" that much different than "report your neighbors for subversive/not-approved ideas, comrade?" Edit: Just think about pairing up McCarthy-ism and HUAC/SACB[1] with NSA-levels of data gathering today. Would it make the world a better place, or would it have a chilling effect on free speech / free exchange of ideas? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#HUAC_and_SACB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy#HUAC_and_SACB
- jes 12y ago
  Saying that McCarthy was not entirely wrong does not imply that I endorse every aspect of his behavior.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Sure. McCarthy was right that there were Soviet agents in America, and that there was a Soviet threat. But he was not the lone canary in the coal mine, blowing the whistle on Soviet deceptions. He is not known for being the voice of reason when few would believe the reality of the situation. He is known for leading/inspiring witch hunts for Soviet spies, and ruining people's lives based on coincidence and thought-crime. When you say he was "not entirely wrong" without qualification, it is these things that people feel are implicitly referred to by the statement.

eruditely 12y ago

I have seen grugq write that russia/china both have underground culture that are free from prosecution and free to do their own work, and US arrests their own and then has the other two assault it. probably a misquote but still something akin to that