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As a game, this is really cool. But when he got to the 4th dimension it didn't make much sense as an explanation (rubble from 3rd dimension showing up in the 4

As a game, this is really cool. But when he got to the 4th dimension it didn't make much sense as an explanation (rubble from 3rd dimension showing up in the 4th). However, if the 4th dimension was time, then you would walk back (or forward) in time to when the wall wasn't there (isn't there anymore cause it is now rubble), move "past the wall", and then walk forward/backward to the original time.

sp332 12y ago
Some rubble fell to the side, along the 4th axis. This is a 4th spatial dimension, not time.
- foolrush 12y ago
  But the fourth dimension is timespace, is it not? At least that was what I gathered from Special and General Relativity and the relativity of simultaneity. X^t, Y^t, Z^t?
  - sp332 12y ago
    This game isn't real life! In the game there are four spatial dimensions, just because the game designer decided to have four.
    - foolrush 12y ago
      Which is an awful lot like a 4th dimension. Arguably we are all 4th dimensional travellers, albeit somewhat constrained along one of the axes. Granted, you had me at “This game isn't real life!”
      - sp332 12y ago
        Oh, and the game also has a time dimension (which works normally I think, just one-way at one speed), so I guess that's 5 :)
  - pizza 12y ago
    When people talk about physics that's what it means. But nothing stops you from making a game with 4 independent axes you can move along.
  - SerpentJoe 12y ago
    Whatever you decide "the" fourth dimension "is" (what's the first? second? third?), it doesn't stop someone else from imagining a world with an additional spatial dimension. Relativity does imply a close relationship between time and space but the game world doesn't appear relativistic.
  - gamerDude 12y ago
    In a lot of cases, the fourth dimension is describe as space. But if you were looking into string theory, often times there are description of many spatial dimensions, say 11 spatial dimensions and then a single dimension of time. We could also have multi-dimension time dimensions as well. The idea of parallel universes where at least one decision is made differently from our own could instead be different dimensions of time. Move to the left or right in time and experience different choices as opposed to only going forward as I assume most of us do now. :D
  - laxatives 12y ago
    I don't think dimensions are specifically numbered. You could call up one dimension, distance along a fixed track another dimension, and distance from the sun your third dimension. You could call temperature your fourth dimension and mass your fifth. This game specifically has 4 spatial dimensions.
  - kazagistar 12y ago
    That is one way of numbering dimensions, in a certain model of the universe. However, in a 2d game, time might be a "third dimension". Or time might be sufficiently distinct in some model that it does not behave like a dimension at all. If I write an equation, and graph it, it has as many dimensions as variables. Those variables might have nothing to do with time OR space.
  - aaron695 12y ago
    > But the fourth dimension is timespace, is it not? No. Only in science fiction novels. It'd need to be measured in meters to make sense as a real 4th dimension.
  - TophWells 12y ago
    What the fourth dimension is depends entirely on what order you put the dimensions in :)
  - coldtea 12y ago
    No, it's actually not. For one, dimensions aren't numbered. Time is only called "fourth" because we just add it as an extra to the 3 spatial dimensions we perceive intuitively. Not because there's some specific order. There can be an arbitrary number of special dimensions in mathematics (hence hypercubes, etc). And according to some (quite prevalent) physics theories, there are actually more than 3 spatial dimensions in the actual reality -- string theory calculations give 10 spatial dimensions.
HeyTyson 12y ago
I thought the same until I watched it a second time. 4th dimension is still time. 'The button' takes you to your character's view of moving across a 3rd dimensional plane. I'm assuming the two different textures on the ground represent the change in the 4th dimension (time). So when you cross to that other side and hit the button again, you're back in the 3rd dimension across a different plane (time). So the desert area is either in the past or in the future (when the wall fell or was being built). Then he goes through the wall and hits the button again and walks back to his original 3rd dimension. That's what I took from it anyway. Seems really neat.
- mtbcoder 12y ago
  That's how I saw it as well. When you rotate to the "side" (pivot) in the 4th dimension, you see the wall and its change over time as one entity. So then you can either pick going around the start (when construction of the wall began) or at the end (when the wall falls). Naturally the landscape would also experience change, hence the desert. When you pivot back, you are at the same location in time and space of the 3rd dimension, just in front of the wall now.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >4th dimension is still time. 'The button' takes you to your character's view of moving across a 3rd dimensional plane. I'm assuming the two different textures on the ground represent the change in the 4th dimension (time). No, time is actually a 5th dimension in this 4D game projection. The developer has actually done the proper 4 to 3D projections, like he has done for the 2/3D that he shows in the beginning. In the 2D to 3D you can definitely see that he's not moving through "time", because you can see the 3rd dimension. The problem is just that we can't intuitively visualize a 4th spatial dimension that makes this difficult. But he's definitely not moving through "time" or in some "past" when the "wall wasn't there". And of course moving through time has different properties than moving through a 4th spatial dimension, so it's not really comparable. E.g if we had a gradual rise in temperature from 0oF to 100oF in the time-dimension, then if you could move through the time-axis you'd experienced different temperature at will, whereas moving through any spatial axis would you'd only feel a partial rise in temperature.
TophWells 12y ago
In the 2D/3D world, the rubble just fell off the wall and landed next to it. It's only strange because it fell in the direction that the player character doesn't normally perceive. In the 3D/4D world, the rubble fell off the wall and landed next to it.

sp332 12y ago

Some rubble fell to the side, along the 4th axis. This is a 4th spatial dimension, not time.

foolrush 12y ago
But the fourth dimension is timespace, is it not? At least that was what I gathered from Special and General Relativity and the relativity of simultaneity. X^t, Y^t, Z^t?
- sp332 12y ago
  This game isn't real life! In the game there are four spatial dimensions, just because the game designer decided to have four.
  - foolrush 12y ago
    Which is an awful lot like a 4th dimension. Arguably we are all 4th dimensional travellers, albeit somewhat constrained along one of the axes. Granted, you had me at “This game isn't real life!”
    - sp332 12y ago
      Oh, and the game also has a time dimension (which works normally I think, just one-way at one speed), so I guess that's 5 :)
- pizza 12y ago
  When people talk about physics that's what it means. But nothing stops you from making a game with 4 independent axes you can move along.
- SerpentJoe 12y ago
  Whatever you decide "the" fourth dimension "is" (what's the first? second? third?), it doesn't stop someone else from imagining a world with an additional spatial dimension. Relativity does imply a close relationship between time and space but the game world doesn't appear relativistic.
- gamerDude 12y ago
  In a lot of cases, the fourth dimension is describe as space. But if you were looking into string theory, often times there are description of many spatial dimensions, say 11 spatial dimensions and then a single dimension of time. We could also have multi-dimension time dimensions as well. The idea of parallel universes where at least one decision is made differently from our own could instead be different dimensions of time. Move to the left or right in time and experience different choices as opposed to only going forward as I assume most of us do now. :D
- laxatives 12y ago
  I don't think dimensions are specifically numbered. You could call up one dimension, distance along a fixed track another dimension, and distance from the sun your third dimension. You could call temperature your fourth dimension and mass your fifth. This game specifically has 4 spatial dimensions.
- kazagistar 12y ago
  That is one way of numbering dimensions, in a certain model of the universe. However, in a 2d game, time might be a "third dimension". Or time might be sufficiently distinct in some model that it does not behave like a dimension at all. If I write an equation, and graph it, it has as many dimensions as variables. Those variables might have nothing to do with time OR space.
- aaron695 12y ago
  > But the fourth dimension is timespace, is it not? No. Only in science fiction novels. It'd need to be measured in meters to make sense as a real 4th dimension.
- TophWells 12y ago
  What the fourth dimension is depends entirely on what order you put the dimensions in :)
- coldtea 12y ago
  No, it's actually not. For one, dimensions aren't numbered. Time is only called "fourth" because we just add it as an extra to the 3 spatial dimensions we perceive intuitively. Not because there's some specific order. There can be an arbitrary number of special dimensions in mathematics (hence hypercubes, etc). And according to some (quite prevalent) physics theories, there are actually more than 3 spatial dimensions in the actual reality -- string theory calculations give 10 spatial dimensions.

HeyTyson 12y ago

I thought the same until I watched it a second time. 4th dimension is still time. 'The button' takes you to your character's view of moving across a 3rd dimensional plane. I'm assuming the two different textures on the ground represent the change in the 4th dimension (time). So when you cross to that other side and hit the button again, you're back in the 3rd dimension across a different plane (time). So the desert area is either in the past or in the future (when the wall fell or was being built). Then he goes through the wall and hits the button again and walks back to his original 3rd dimension. That's what I took from it anyway. Seems really neat.

mtbcoder 12y ago
That's how I saw it as well. When you rotate to the "side" (pivot) in the 4th dimension, you see the wall and its change over time as one entity. So then you can either pick going around the start (when construction of the wall began) or at the end (when the wall falls). Naturally the landscape would also experience change, hence the desert. When you pivot back, you are at the same location in time and space of the 3rd dimension, just in front of the wall now.
coldtea 12y ago
>4th dimension is still time. 'The button' takes you to your character's view of moving across a 3rd dimensional plane. I'm assuming the two different textures on the ground represent the change in the 4th dimension (time). No, time is actually a 5th dimension in this 4D game projection. The developer has actually done the proper 4 to 3D projections, like he has done for the 2/3D that he shows in the beginning. In the 2D to 3D you can definitely see that he's not moving through "time", because you can see the 3rd dimension. The problem is just that we can't intuitively visualize a 4th spatial dimension that makes this difficult. But he's definitely not moving through "time" or in some "past" when the "wall wasn't there". And of course moving through time has different properties than moving through a 4th spatial dimension, so it's not really comparable. E.g if we had a gradual rise in temperature from 0oF to 100oF in the time-dimension, then if you could move through the time-axis you'd experienced different temperature at will, whereas moving through any spatial axis would you'd only feel a partial rise in temperature.

TophWells 12y ago

In the 2D/3D world, the rubble just fell off the wall and landed next to it. It's only strange because it fell in the direction that the player character doesn't normally perceive. In the 3D/4D world, the rubble fell off the wall and landed next to it.