4 ms·

Before we repeat the same discussion[1] about Microsoft's recent hyperlapse prototype, note that the term hyperlapse was not coined by Microsoft[2]. Also note

Before we repeat the same discussion[1] about Microsoft's recent hyperlapse prototype, note that the term hyperlapse was not coined by Microsoft[2]. Also note that they are using entirely different methods. Microsoft's approach analyzes the content of individual frames to model the camera's position and rotation in 3D space while Instagram uses the iPhone's gyroscope. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8227321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8227321 [2] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlapse http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlapse via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8227330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8227330 edit: On a side note, I'd like to point out that each approach has very interesting merits: Microsoft's method can be applied to any video file, but requires more substantial CPU usage. Since instagram isn't analyzing video content, but instead cropping the input video based on gyroscope data, it requires much less processing time and can be done on the fly on a mobile device. Microsoft's method can even render an entire scene from its 3D model (see their mountain climbing example where the helmet-mounted camera looks in an entirely different direction) while Instagram's method crops input video frames based on gyroscope data. This makes Microsoft's method more robust, but much less practical on a mobile device. Each method makes different trade-offs.

snowwrestler 12y ago
The Microsoft project is technically impressive. But I think John Gruber was onto something when he wrote, "But while Microsoft was publishing research, Instagram was building an app that will soon be in the hands of hundreds of thousands of people." My impression of Microsoft Research is that they are like PARC: doing a lot of impressive research that rarely gets turned into compelling products. The Kinect was a big payoff from MSR. What are some others?
- brianshaler 12y ago
  I don't follow their product releases very closely, but I was excited about Photosynth. I feel like the underlying research has been put to use in subtle ways in various products (possibly even Kinect?). I'm not sure if Deep Zoom went anywhere, but their initial implementation leaned on Silverlight.. As a research division, they are expected to focus on long plays by developing enabling technologies. Packaging that prototype in a simple mobile app for use by hundreds of thousands of people, for free, wouldn't move the needle very much for MS as an organization. I'm not trying to defend MS/MSR, just trying to be pragmatic. It's up to MS leadership to incorporate cutting edge research into meaningful products.
  - sp332 12y ago
    Photosynth is still around. The current version is more limited than it used to be, it only supports straight lines and circular panoramas. But they're working on a more impressive update. Here's a preview http://photosynth.net/preview/view/df869f96-2765-4939-8eb3-24770b6f2c64 http://photosynth.net/preview/view/df869f96-2765-4939-8eb3-2... You can zoom in an out, pan around, and hit 'c' to see a wireframe. Edit: you can also make Deep Zoom images offline in the Image Composite Editor, but that's been around for a long time. https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ICE/ https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/I...
- radnam 12y ago
  Kinect was not an MSR product [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimeSense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimeSense
  - snowwrestler 12y ago
    Thanks. I was wondering where I got that impression, and it looks like MSR does take some credit for working with that technology. http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/about/brochure-7.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/about/brochure-7.aspx
  - robotresearcher 12y ago
    The pose detection was from MSR and was technically very impressive at the time. Jamie Shotton and colleagues did the work. Primesense provided the RGBD camera: Shotton et al did the skeleton extraction.
  - eatmyshorts 12y ago
    Kinect v1.0 was not an MSR product, although they did assist with the software. Kinect v2.0 was wholly developed at Microsoft, however. Again, with v2.0, MSR assisted with significant portions of the development.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Generics in the CLR are a direct result from MSR. .Net would not have the nice generics it has without them. It even came down to specific deadlines and code deliveries MSR had to make. The same team also delivered F#, which might have a large impact on keeping .Net competitive. Not only because features trickle down into C# (like async). But also because there may be lots of people only staying on .Net due to having a good language option. (That's just my own impression. I'd personally leave .Net without F#. I'm probably overestimating the impact.)
- jamessb 12y ago
  The TrueSkill ranking system was incorporated into Xbox Live: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  I have no doubt they're overall a very small research producer but Facebook's stuff[0] seems to be really heavily based on stuff they've actually done. I won't make a judgement on the kind of stuff MS produce but there's definitely something to be said for building something awesome and then sharing the technical information. [0]https://www.facebook.com/publications https://www.facebook.com/publications
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  I have no doubt they're overall a very small research producer but Facebook's stuff[0] seems to be really heavily based on stuff they've actually done. I won't make a judgement on the kind of stuff MS produce but there's definitely something to be said for building something awesome and then sharing the technical information. [0] https://www.facebook.com/publications https://www.facebook.com/publications
- kvb 12y ago
  Kinect was something like the fastest selling accessory of all time, so you can't expect too many hits at that level. But there have certainly been many other consumer-visible successes, like Excel's flash fill or Skype's upcoming real-time translation. Then there are enterprise things that consumers may be unaware of, like SQL Server's Hekaton technology. And beyond that, there are lots of additional projects that meaningfully translate to value to Microsoft but that aren't really externally visible, like speech recognition improvements, search engine ranking techniques, datacenter networking improvements, efficient algorithms for traffic routing and prediction, etc.
  - Chronic29 12y ago
    That's the point. The average person isn't affected by MSR developments. Instagram's Hyperlapse will impact hundreds of thousands.
sriku 12y ago
In the microsoft method, it would be reasonably easy to approximate their SFM step with info from the gyro sensor. From their paper, SFM seems to be one of the most expensive steps.

snowwrestler 12y ago

The Microsoft project is technically impressive. But I think John Gruber was onto something when he wrote, "But while Microsoft was publishing research, Instagram was building an app that will soon be in the hands of hundreds of thousands of people." My impression of Microsoft Research is that they are like PARC: doing a lot of impressive research that rarely gets turned into compelling products. The Kinect was a big payoff from MSR. What are some others?

brianshaler 12y ago
I don't follow their product releases very closely, but I was excited about Photosynth. I feel like the underlying research has been put to use in subtle ways in various products (possibly even Kinect?). I'm not sure if Deep Zoom went anywhere, but their initial implementation leaned on Silverlight.. As a research division, they are expected to focus on long plays by developing enabling technologies. Packaging that prototype in a simple mobile app for use by hundreds of thousands of people, for free, wouldn't move the needle very much for MS as an organization. I'm not trying to defend MS/MSR, just trying to be pragmatic. It's up to MS leadership to incorporate cutting edge research into meaningful products.
- sp332 12y ago
  Photosynth is still around. The current version is more limited than it used to be, it only supports straight lines and circular panoramas. But they're working on a more impressive update. Here's a preview http://photosynth.net/preview/view/df869f96-2765-4939-8eb3-24770b6f2c64 http://photosynth.net/preview/view/df869f96-2765-4939-8eb3-2... You can zoom in an out, pan around, and hit 'c' to see a wireframe. Edit: you can also make Deep Zoom images offline in the Image Composite Editor, but that's been around for a long time. https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/ICE/ https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/groups/ivm/I...
radnam 12y ago
Kinect was not an MSR product [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimeSense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimeSense
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  Thanks. I was wondering where I got that impression, and it looks like MSR does take some credit for working with that technology. http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/about/brochure-7.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/about/brochure-7.aspx
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  The pose detection was from MSR and was technically very impressive at the time. Jamie Shotton and colleagues did the work. Primesense provided the RGBD camera: Shotton et al did the skeleton extraction.
- eatmyshorts 12y ago
  Kinect v1.0 was not an MSR product, although they did assist with the software. Kinect v2.0 was wholly developed at Microsoft, however. Again, with v2.0, MSR assisted with significant portions of the development.
MichaelGG 12y ago
Generics in the CLR are a direct result from MSR. .Net would not have the nice generics it has without them. It even came down to specific deadlines and code deliveries MSR had to make. The same team also delivered F#, which might have a large impact on keeping .Net competitive. Not only because features trickle down into C# (like async). But also because there may be lots of people only staying on .Net due to having a good language option. (That's just my own impression. I'd personally leave .Net without F#. I'm probably overestimating the impact.)
jamessb 12y ago
The TrueSkill ranking system was incorporated into Xbox Live: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/
mcintyre1994 12y ago
I have no doubt they're overall a very small research producer but Facebook's stuff[0] seems to be really heavily based on stuff they've actually done. I won't make a judgement on the kind of stuff MS produce but there's definitely something to be said for building something awesome and then sharing the technical information. [0]https://www.facebook.com/publications https://www.facebook.com/publications
mcintyre1994 12y ago
I have no doubt they're overall a very small research producer but Facebook's stuff[0] seems to be really heavily based on stuff they've actually done. I won't make a judgement on the kind of stuff MS produce but there's definitely something to be said for building something awesome and then sharing the technical information. [0] https://www.facebook.com/publications https://www.facebook.com/publications
kvb 12y ago
Kinect was something like the fastest selling accessory of all time, so you can't expect too many hits at that level. But there have certainly been many other consumer-visible successes, like Excel's flash fill or Skype's upcoming real-time translation. Then there are enterprise things that consumers may be unaware of, like SQL Server's Hekaton technology. And beyond that, there are lots of additional projects that meaningfully translate to value to Microsoft but that aren't really externally visible, like speech recognition improvements, search engine ranking techniques, datacenter networking improvements, efficient algorithms for traffic routing and prediction, etc.
- Chronic29 12y ago
  That's the point. The average person isn't affected by MSR developments. Instagram's Hyperlapse will impact hundreds of thousands.

sriku 12y ago

In the microsoft method, it would be reasonably easy to approximate their SFM step with info from the gyro sensor. From their paper, SFM seems to be one of the most expensive steps.