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Two words. DREAM Act. http://dreamact.info http://dreamact.info I was brought to the United States by my parents at a very young age. In the process I have inh

Two words. DREAM Act. http://dreamact.info http://dreamact.info I was brought to the United States by my parents at a very young age. In the process I have inherited the title of an "illegal immigrant" from my parents. The DREAM Act is a legislation 10 years in the making. We have thousands of enterpreneurs, scientists, engineers, nurses, doctors, talent in every field imaginable going to waste in the United States; living in the shadows. Myself included. Last year I graduated from NYU with a dual degree in electrical and computer engineering. My graduate school plans were shattered because I could not prove my identify for the purpose of taking the GREs. I cannot work, open a bank account, drive, get health insurance, go to a bar, take an interstate bus or train, fly, live or breathe. Yet, I am lucky, because I live in New York City. Those living almost anywhere else in the country cannot go to college or call the police at fear of deportation. There are hundreds of thousands of us in the United States. I personally know hundreds of children, teens, and now young adults that have had their lives put on hold for Congress to "feel right" for immigration reform. I also know quite a few individuals who could not live like this anymore and have taken their skills elsewhere by going for voluntary departure (a path not open to all). Next time your legislator tells you that this is not the right time for immigration reform, remind them of the experience of our butchered youth, remind them of the DREAM Act. I am a 23 year old American with no relief, rights, or equality in sight. Tragically, I am not alone.

netsp 17y ago
To expand on what you are talking about: The solution to the problems caused by restrictions on immigration is less restrictions on immigration. A super specialised policy/visa designed to milk some of the meatiest benefits from immigration is an ugly hack.
- nick-dap 17y ago
  I honestly don't know if thats the case. It is not unreasonable to demand from Congress that they pass multiple legislations that address an area as complex as immigration (or healthcare for that matter). We are eagerly following the all encompassing reforms, while what we actually need is for Congress to make legislation continuously. Who would have thought that this was their job? Instead we make a big deal about big legislations and watch senators flip charts and push rhetoric while working deals behind closed doors. When advocating for manageable legislation with a whole lot of support and little floor time I've personally heard: "We cannot do it now, because we do not have the White House." "We cannot do it now because we don't have the majority in the Senate." "We cannot do it now because we dont have the 60 vote super majority." "We cannot do it now because its just not the right political atmosphere." This Fall, if health care fails, they'll have a perfect excuse not to touch immigration with a 10 foot pole. "We cannot do it now, because obviously it wouldn't pass, look at health care." My personal favorite "It takes so much political capital to pass any immigration bill that legislators need to do it all at once and then not touch it for another 20 years." Ironically, that one comes from reform advocates. My personal favorite response to that was by Robert Kerrey (a former Senator, President of New School in New York) - "I got news for you, Congress comes back every year." In geek terms. Why not iterate and see what works? What we have, obviously doesn't. Any legislation that we come up with today is almost guaranteed not to work in 5 to 10 years.
  - netsp 17y ago
    What sort of legislation relating to your personal position do you think should be passed? I was simply making a more general point about restrictions on immigration. If you take in to account all effects including the immigrant, the destination and the country of origin, you get a terrible economic net loss. It is similar to restricting trade in goods and services.
    - nick-dap 17y ago
      The DREAM Act is the legislation that would help. people like me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act http://dreamact.info/ http://dreamact.info/ We need your support in pressuring legislators to action.
netsp 17y ago
Why are you still in the US? Does an NYU education put you in a position to immigrate somewhere?
- nick-dap 17y ago
  There is a 10 year ban on applying for any visa once you leave. My family, friends, and home are all here. I have no one where my parents came from. Leaving turns into a 20 year ordeal to see them again. Would you do it? Would you do it at 23? In general, going somewhere else is not possible at all for many. Before one can go somewhere else he has to go back to his country of citizenship. Often thats simply not possible. Yet another case are stateless individuals who have nowhere to go period. Even if you ignore all the human rights issues and look at the problem from an economically pragmatic point of view, it doesn't make any sense to maintain the status quo. Why should educated and obviously needed Americans be forced out of their homes and shipped out? To "not encourage illegal immigration in the future." Thats the argument I hear. Am I supposed to be a casualty of a political statement? I don't feel anything but American, so the people who wage the "cultural war" for votes and ratings can go ___ themselves. I'm fighting for my rights.
  - netsp 17y ago
    It seems that you have a good grasp of the reasons put forward against giving you citizenship. A lot of them boil down to rule of law arguments of some sort avoiding arbitrary rules that let you cherry pick the people you want (educated, productive, culturally American, etc.). Maintaining the ability to keep people out when they want in requires cruelty. The tighter you want to keep the control, the crueller. The more they want in, the crueller. If you want to really really close a border, you need to be willing to kill people. Have you ever considered going in to some sort of open battle about this. You're educated. It seems like you have the ability to articulate your position well. You would be able to gain empathy from Americans who will see you as an American under threat of deportation. Are there any support/advice channels for illegal immigrants in the NY?
    - jacquesm 17y ago
nearestneighbor 17y ago
I'm curious, how did you get in and through college (tuition, enrollment, etc.) without an ID or a bank account? I lived in NYC myself. Besides not having to drive, is it really a better place to be for undocumented immigrants?
- 4chan4ever 17y ago
  Well I'll be the lone dissenting voice here. Downmod away... First, I think illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL immigration and yes, the laws need to be reformed but until they are, let's not be too devious in how we aid and abet criminal behaviors. Second and more to the point, anybody who's considering immigrating to the US of A (or Canada) for "technology" will face a rude awakening in another 5-10 years. You're immigrating to the wrong hemisphere. Now if you think you might be a good producer of trash reality TV then hey! Come on over. That's where America truly excels.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    I don't like to downmod to express my disagreement, so let me try to put it into words instead of the 'down arrow'. I think that your stance is absolutely indefensible since the poster explicitly states that he came to America as a young child and 'inherited' his status as an illegal from his parents. So, even if he/she has done everything possible to stay clear of the law (if there is one thing you do not do as an illegal it is breaking ANY laws, since that can lead to instant deportation) simply by walking around on the street there is a risk. If you have been in a country for as long as you remember and you have been a productive element in that society then by any definition you are part of that society, and not a criminal. To pretend it is otherwise because of a bunch of stupid pieces of paper is putting the horse behind the cart.
    - stonemetal 17y ago
      So, even if he/she has done everything possible to stay clear of the law ... been a productive element in that society If he has been a productive member of society then he has broken several laws around the employment of illegals, including tax evasion. It as if he broke in to your house and has been living in your attic. He contributed to the upkeep of the house by fixing a holes in the roof so that his bed would stay dry. Now that he has lived in your attic for so long he demands ownership since he doesn't remember living anywhere else and doesn't have anywhere else to go. ...in that society then by any definition you are part of that society No, you are member of society when you live by the rules of that society, and take your punishment when you violate their rules. Doing what you want and breaking whichever rules you want because they don't apply to you doesn't make you member of society. That is not to say the law is correct, but violating them because you don't like them makes you a criminal not a citizen. If he were practicing Civil Disobedience then there would be a political component to his action instead of entitlement whining.

netsp 17y ago

To expand on what you are talking about: The solution to the problems caused by restrictions on immigration is less restrictions on immigration. A super specialised policy/visa designed to milk some of the meatiest benefits from immigration is an ugly hack.

nick-dap 17y ago
I honestly don't know if thats the case. It is not unreasonable to demand from Congress that they pass multiple legislations that address an area as complex as immigration (or healthcare for that matter). We are eagerly following the all encompassing reforms, while what we actually need is for Congress to make legislation continuously. Who would have thought that this was their job? Instead we make a big deal about big legislations and watch senators flip charts and push rhetoric while working deals behind closed doors. When advocating for manageable legislation with a whole lot of support and little floor time I've personally heard: "We cannot do it now, because we do not have the White House." "We cannot do it now because we don't have the majority in the Senate." "We cannot do it now because we dont have the 60 vote super majority." "We cannot do it now because its just not the right political atmosphere." This Fall, if health care fails, they'll have a perfect excuse not to touch immigration with a 10 foot pole. "We cannot do it now, because obviously it wouldn't pass, look at health care." My personal favorite "It takes so much political capital to pass any immigration bill that legislators need to do it all at once and then not touch it for another 20 years." Ironically, that one comes from reform advocates. My personal favorite response to that was by Robert Kerrey (a former Senator, President of New School in New York) - "I got news for you, Congress comes back every year." In geek terms. Why not iterate and see what works? What we have, obviously doesn't. Any legislation that we come up with today is almost guaranteed not to work in 5 to 10 years.
- netsp 17y ago
  What sort of legislation relating to your personal position do you think should be passed? I was simply making a more general point about restrictions on immigration. If you take in to account all effects including the immigrant, the destination and the country of origin, you get a terrible economic net loss. It is similar to restricting trade in goods and services.
  - nick-dap 17y ago
    The DREAM Act is the legislation that would help. people like me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act http://dreamact.info/ http://dreamact.info/ We need your support in pressuring legislators to action.

netsp 17y ago

Why are you still in the US? Does an NYU education put you in a position to immigrate somewhere?

nick-dap 17y ago
There is a 10 year ban on applying for any visa once you leave. My family, friends, and home are all here. I have no one where my parents came from. Leaving turns into a 20 year ordeal to see them again. Would you do it? Would you do it at 23? In general, going somewhere else is not possible at all for many. Before one can go somewhere else he has to go back to his country of citizenship. Often thats simply not possible. Yet another case are stateless individuals who have nowhere to go period. Even if you ignore all the human rights issues and look at the problem from an economically pragmatic point of view, it doesn't make any sense to maintain the status quo. Why should educated and obviously needed Americans be forced out of their homes and shipped out? To "not encourage illegal immigration in the future." Thats the argument I hear. Am I supposed to be a casualty of a political statement? I don't feel anything but American, so the people who wage the "cultural war" for votes and ratings can go ___ themselves. I'm fighting for my rights.
- netsp 17y ago
  It seems that you have a good grasp of the reasons put forward against giving you citizenship. A lot of them boil down to rule of law arguments of some sort avoiding arbitrary rules that let you cherry pick the people you want (educated, productive, culturally American, etc.). Maintaining the ability to keep people out when they want in requires cruelty. The tighter you want to keep the control, the crueller. The more they want in, the crueller. If you want to really really close a border, you need to be willing to kill people. Have you ever considered going in to some sort of open battle about this. You're educated. It seems like you have the ability to articulate your position well. You would be able to gain empathy from Americans who will see you as an American under threat of deportation. Are there any support/advice channels for illegal immigrants in the NY?
  - jacquesm 17y ago

nearestneighbor 17y ago

I'm curious, how did you get in and through college (tuition, enrollment, etc.) without an ID or a bank account? I lived in NYC myself. Besides not having to drive, is it really a better place to be for undocumented immigrants?

4chan4ever 17y ago
Well I'll be the lone dissenting voice here. Downmod away... First, I think illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL immigration and yes, the laws need to be reformed but until they are, let's not be too devious in how we aid and abet criminal behaviors. Second and more to the point, anybody who's considering immigrating to the US of A (or Canada) for "technology" will face a rude awakening in another 5-10 years. You're immigrating to the wrong hemisphere. Now if you think you might be a good producer of trash reality TV then hey! Come on over. That's where America truly excels.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I don't like to downmod to express my disagreement, so let me try to put it into words instead of the 'down arrow'. I think that your stance is absolutely indefensible since the poster explicitly states that he came to America as a young child and 'inherited' his status as an illegal from his parents. So, even if he/she has done everything possible to stay clear of the law (if there is one thing you do not do as an illegal it is breaking ANY laws, since that can lead to instant deportation) simply by walking around on the street there is a risk. If you have been in a country for as long as you remember and you have been a productive element in that society then by any definition you are part of that society, and not a criminal. To pretend it is otherwise because of a bunch of stupid pieces of paper is putting the horse behind the cart.
  - stonemetal 17y ago
    So, even if he/she has done everything possible to stay clear of the law ... been a productive element in that society If he has been a productive member of society then he has broken several laws around the employment of illegals, including tax evasion. It as if he broke in to your house and has been living in your attic. He contributed to the upkeep of the house by fixing a holes in the roof so that his bed would stay dry. Now that he has lived in your attic for so long he demands ownership since he doesn't remember living anywhere else and doesn't have anywhere else to go. ...in that society then by any definition you are part of that society No, you are member of society when you live by the rules of that society, and take your punishment when you violate their rules. Doing what you want and breaking whichever rules you want because they don't apply to you doesn't make you member of society. That is not to say the law is correct, but violating them because you don't like them makes you a criminal not a citizen. If he were practicing Civil Disobedience then there would be a political component to his action instead of entitlement whining.