7 ms·

I've been a huge fan of Firefox OS for a long time[1], but here's something I think many people here aren't realizing: Firefox OS considerably lowers the barrie

by diafygi 12y ago

I've been a huge fan of Firefox OS for a long time[1], but here's something I think many people here aren't realizing: Firefox OS considerably lowers the barriers to entry for app developers. Firefox OS apps are just html pages in a zip file, so all you need to create one is a text editor and a browser. In fact, Firefox will soon include an IDE[2], so you don't even need a text editor anymore. I think that will have a massive impact on how many developers will make apps for Firefox OS, especially local developing world apps. If you only have non-administrator access to a computer in an internet cafe or some other shared computer, you can probably still develop Firefox OS apps since it may already have Firefox installed. Additionally, there's millions of tutorials online about web development, many of which are very beginner friendly and in multiple languages. This extremely low barrier to entry will allow local communities to easily make apps that cater to just their local needs. Want to know where the best location to get water is? Want to know which farms in the area are hiring? Want to see the local mayor's latest scandalous photo? These all can be coded in a weekend at the local internet cafe. EDIT: Also, where can I buy one? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 [2] - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE

JohnTHaller 12y ago
You'll be able to develop on internet cafe and shared computers without needing to have Firefox installed if you have a USB drive with Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition [1] on it. The WebIDE is already available in Firefox 34 nightly builds, which are also portable [2]. You won't be able to install the drivers to connect to a Firefox OS device without admin rights, of course. [1] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable [2] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#nightly http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#...
- iancarroll 12y ago
  I don't live anywhere near a startup "area", but has anyone actually seen an internet cafe that isn't locked with over protective software?
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    There are quite a few. It basically varies with the type and size of internet cafe. Large commercial internet cafes with dozens of machines that only do internet will often be locked down and reset the PC after each user. Many will have software prohibiting just about everything. Some will not. Smaller places like copy and photo shops that have a dozen machines or coffee shops with several machines will often have machines that allow portable software use.
  - kbenson 12y ago
    I'm less worried about the computers at an internet cafe being locked down with overprotective software than I am that the aforementioned overprotective software, if it exists, will probably do very little to keep out actual nefarious software which would just love to have access to lots of USB keys.
- petecox 12y ago
  Can the WebIDE be made self-hosting; on the device itself? i.e. connect up your Flame to a HDMI display via MHL and attach a mouse and keyboard through a powered usb hub. No desktop required!
fidotron 12y ago
You're simultaneously underestimating how sophisticated the existing telecommunications ecosystems are in developing nations and overestimating their reliability. There is, has been, and will continue to be a veritable mini-industry of everything from http://textit.in/ http://textit.in/ to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa . In many senses developing nations are actually ahead of the curve, especially when it comes to mobile banking. FFOS is a solution in search of problems, unfortunately those are problems which already have better solutions.
- soapdog 12y ago
  you say: "FFOS is a solution in search of problems, unfortunately those are problems which already have better solutions." I have to disagree. Firefox OS offers many things that are important and needed right now, lets pick some stuff that is not served elsewhere: * A platform that is developed in the open and accepts contribution. Firefox OS is the ONLY MOBILE OPERATING SYSTEM where all the source code is open including our built-in apps and services. Its not only available but its constructed in public with people being able to contribute and see what is being done. * A platform that doesn't limit your freedom. You're free to build and distribute your apps without walled gardens. You don't need to pay to place an app on Firefox Marketplace. * A platform that embraces the web which is one of the major achievements of the internet. Instead of the "you can't do this with HTML5" we're fixing the web platform so that you can have apps that work equally between platforms. It means that apps will be able to work on the web, desktop, mobile regardless of OS as vendors implement the WebAPIs. * A platform where HTML5 is a first-class citizen.
  - Pacabel 12y ago
    These sorts of arguments or claims aren't very convincing, or don't appear to hold true in practice. The claim that the development of Firefox OS is somehow more "open" is very suspect. Even if the source code is publicly available, and outside contributions may be accepted, Mozilla is still going to act as a gatekeeper, which inherently limits which contributions will or will not make it into Firefox OS. That doesn't strike me as being any more "open" than the development of Android or iOS is. A contribution to Firefox OS is a suggestion at best, but one that can be unilaterally disregarded by Mozilla without any sort of consequence to Mozilla. That's no different than making a suggestion to Google about Android, or to Apple about iOS. The recent tendency of Mozilla to force totally unwanted changes (like Australis) upon Firefox users, even after very vocal objections to such changes, further makes me skeptical about how much openness there truly is when it comes to their products. Any objections, suggestions, feedback or contributions that aren't compatible with the direction that Mozilla has already decided to take appear to be ignored. "Openness" means that non-Mozilla parties can actively influence the development and future of Firefox OS. Merely being able to provide non-binding feedback or suggestions, even if in the form of code, is not really openness. Likewise, the claim that Firefox OS "doesn't limit your freedom" is suspect, too. How can that claim be made when developers are pretty much forced into using HTML5, CSS and JavaScript to build apps? I don't consider myself to have "freedom" if, as as developer, I'm forced into using JavaScript or some half-baked "transpiler" that attempts (usually poorly) to target JavaScript. It's also odd to claim that these apps will somehow be portable to other platforms, especially if they're using APIs that only Firefox OS currently supports. Even if there have been efforts to standardize these APIs, the fact that they aren't widely implemented by other browsers or platforms renders them as proprietary to Firefox OS, in practice, at least for some time. A standard that exists but isn't widely implemented probably shouldn't be considered a standard. And the "HTML5 is a first-class citizen" distinction seems quite irrelevant in practice, as well. If the same apps will supposedly work on other platforms, either natively or with the help of something like Cordova, then they're just as "first-class" there as they are on Firefox OS. So as you can see, the arguments you gave are theoretical at best, and some of them don't even appear to hold true in reality.
annnnd 12y ago
> Firefox OS considerably lowers the barriers to entry for app developers For someone who is trying to get into mobile app development for Firefox OS, what would the recommended phone be? I know where to get Android and iOS phones (and also know which ones are best), what about Firefox OS ones - which ones are good and where can I get one of them? (preferably from EU)
- asadotzler 12y ago
  The Flame is the Firefox OS reference phone. It's what Mozilla folks use to build and test Firefox OS. It's available for $145 plus $25 S&H at http://www.everbuying.com/product549652.html http://www.everbuying.com/product549652.html
  - annnnd 12y ago
    Thanks, appreciate that!

by diafygi 12y ago

JohnTHaller 12y ago

You'll be able to develop on internet cafe and shared computers without needing to have Firefox installed if you have a USB drive with Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition [1] on it. The WebIDE is already available in Firefox 34 nightly builds, which are also portable [2]. You won't be able to install the drivers to connect to a Firefox OS device without admin rights, of course. [1] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable [2] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#nightly http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#...

iancarroll 12y ago
I don't live anywhere near a startup "area", but has anyone actually seen an internet cafe that isn't locked with over protective software?
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  There are quite a few. It basically varies with the type and size of internet cafe. Large commercial internet cafes with dozens of machines that only do internet will often be locked down and reset the PC after each user. Many will have software prohibiting just about everything. Some will not. Smaller places like copy and photo shops that have a dozen machines or coffee shops with several machines will often have machines that allow portable software use.
- kbenson 12y ago
  I'm less worried about the computers at an internet cafe being locked down with overprotective software than I am that the aforementioned overprotective software, if it exists, will probably do very little to keep out actual nefarious software which would just love to have access to lots of USB keys.
petecox 12y ago
Can the WebIDE be made self-hosting; on the device itself? i.e. connect up your Flame to a HDMI display via MHL and attach a mouse and keyboard through a powered usb hub. No desktop required!

fidotron 12y ago

You're simultaneously underestimating how sophisticated the existing telecommunications ecosystems are in developing nations and overestimating their reliability. There is, has been, and will continue to be a veritable mini-industry of everything from http://textit.in/ http://textit.in/ to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa . In many senses developing nations are actually ahead of the curve, especially when it comes to mobile banking. FFOS is a solution in search of problems, unfortunately those are problems which already have better solutions.

soapdog 12y ago
you say: "FFOS is a solution in search of problems, unfortunately those are problems which already have better solutions." I have to disagree. Firefox OS offers many things that are important and needed right now, lets pick some stuff that is not served elsewhere: * A platform that is developed in the open and accepts contribution. Firefox OS is the ONLY MOBILE OPERATING SYSTEM where all the source code is open including our built-in apps and services. Its not only available but its constructed in public with people being able to contribute and see what is being done. * A platform that doesn't limit your freedom. You're free to build and distribute your apps without walled gardens. You don't need to pay to place an app on Firefox Marketplace. * A platform that embraces the web which is one of the major achievements of the internet. Instead of the "you can't do this with HTML5" we're fixing the web platform so that you can have apps that work equally between platforms. It means that apps will be able to work on the web, desktop, mobile regardless of OS as vendors implement the WebAPIs. * A platform where HTML5 is a first-class citizen.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  These sorts of arguments or claims aren't very convincing, or don't appear to hold true in practice. The claim that the development of Firefox OS is somehow more "open" is very suspect. Even if the source code is publicly available, and outside contributions may be accepted, Mozilla is still going to act as a gatekeeper, which inherently limits which contributions will or will not make it into Firefox OS. That doesn't strike me as being any more "open" than the development of Android or iOS is. A contribution to Firefox OS is a suggestion at best, but one that can be unilaterally disregarded by Mozilla without any sort of consequence to Mozilla. That's no different than making a suggestion to Google about Android, or to Apple about iOS. The recent tendency of Mozilla to force totally unwanted changes (like Australis) upon Firefox users, even after very vocal objections to such changes, further makes me skeptical about how much openness there truly is when it comes to their products. Any objections, suggestions, feedback or contributions that aren't compatible with the direction that Mozilla has already decided to take appear to be ignored. "Openness" means that non-Mozilla parties can actively influence the development and future of Firefox OS. Merely being able to provide non-binding feedback or suggestions, even if in the form of code, is not really openness. Likewise, the claim that Firefox OS "doesn't limit your freedom" is suspect, too. How can that claim be made when developers are pretty much forced into using HTML5, CSS and JavaScript to build apps? I don't consider myself to have "freedom" if, as as developer, I'm forced into using JavaScript or some half-baked "transpiler" that attempts (usually poorly) to target JavaScript. It's also odd to claim that these apps will somehow be portable to other platforms, especially if they're using APIs that only Firefox OS currently supports. Even if there have been efforts to standardize these APIs, the fact that they aren't widely implemented by other browsers or platforms renders them as proprietary to Firefox OS, in practice, at least for some time. A standard that exists but isn't widely implemented probably shouldn't be considered a standard. And the "HTML5 is a first-class citizen" distinction seems quite irrelevant in practice, as well. If the same apps will supposedly work on other platforms, either natively or with the help of something like Cordova, then they're just as "first-class" there as they are on Firefox OS. So as you can see, the arguments you gave are theoretical at best, and some of them don't even appear to hold true in reality.

annnnd 12y ago

> Firefox OS considerably lowers the barriers to entry for app developers For someone who is trying to get into mobile app development for Firefox OS, what would the recommended phone be? I know where to get Android and iOS phones (and also know which ones are best), what about Firefox OS ones - which ones are good and where can I get one of them? (preferably from EU)

asadotzler 12y ago
The Flame is the Firefox OS reference phone. It's what Mozilla folks use to build and test Firefox OS. It's available for $145 plus $25 S&H at http://www.everbuying.com/product549652.html http://www.everbuying.com/product549652.html
- annnnd 12y ago
  Thanks, appreciate that!