11 ms·

Mozilla Unveils $33 Intex Cloud FX Smartphone

271 points by rhelmer 12y ago

lovelearning 12y ago
They've managed to deploy Firefox OS - which is based on AOSP - on just 128 MB of RAM? I'm impressed!
- Hario 12y ago
  AOSP?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - ktsmith 12y ago
    Android Open Source Project
  - dublinben 12y ago
    Android Open Source Project. The base for every Android phone.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- wmf 12y ago
  The promise of FxOS is that it should be lighter than Android because it strips out layers like SurfaceFlinger. Until now that hasn't really been delivered; I wonder if this phone is actually usable.
- valarauca1 12y ago
  AOSP: As "Android Open Source Project"? Also did some googling, yes FireFoxOS is based on AOSP, or at least its a dependency in the build. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Building_and_installing_Firefox_OS/Firefox_OS_build_process_summary https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Building_and_...
- briandh 12y ago
  For those curious -- like I was -- apparently the part based on AOSP is the low-level "infrastructure layer", Gonk: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Platform/Architecture https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Platform/Arch... They also used associated tools like fastboot and adb.
- asadotzler 12y ago
  "Based on AOSP" adds more confusion than clarity to the discussion. Firefox OS is based on the Android Linux kernel and uses the Android HAL and some other low level bits but it is not Android or even very similar to Android above the HAL.
makmanalp 12y ago
$33? That's basically a raspberry pi with GSM for an amazing price. If I could pop open the case to get to pins or have a video out or something, this would be game changing.
- bradfa 12y ago
  Is it not game changing just being a $33 smart phone? Heck, I pay more than $33 per month for my smart phone service!
  - zanny 12y ago
    I recently started using Freedompop, which gives 200 minutes and 500 messages and megabytes for free each month. Tried their higher tier services - they work great. But I don't need them. So I've been paying $0 in phone service for a few months now. It is only limited by Sprint's 3G coverage, and if its available you use the 4G instead. They even have a nice $70 a year unlimited minutes and messages plan (same 500mb of data - I don't think their data rates are competitive at all imo, but then again no phone companies data rates are competitive unless you had exactly 7 people on a tmobile plan). This is after trying out Tracfone, Republic Wireless, and Ting. It is really hard to argue paying monthly if you don't have to.
    - aembleton 12y ago
      Just be warned that you might lose service if they fail to pay their bills to their network provider. I was with a similar sounding MVNO in the UK called Ovivo. Fortunately I switched away but just one month later all subscribers were cut off: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2014/03/sim-only-provider-ovivo-shuts-down-know-your-rights http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2014/03/sim-... Free is brilliant if there is a viable business model to make it pay.
      - zanny 12y ago
        I heard about them a year ago, but they started out in like 2010 and had to switch from Clear WiMax to Sprint at the time, and yeah, I had no confidence in their long term viability. A year later, they were still going, so I gave it a shot. I don't regret it. If the floor falls out, every sane MVNO in the US is Sprint based anyway and I can move my phone to any of them.
xanderstrike 12y ago
I've been using the Open C for a couple weeks now, and while it continues to surprise with how capable it is, it consistently seems to just barely scrape by on the hardware (512mb RAM, 1.2ghz dual core). I wonder what sorts of concessions had to be made to make this $33 phone a reality. Will it be all that different from symbian feature phone? Either way, I'll be buying one when it goes up on ebay.
- janjongboom 12y ago
  From the top of my head: less animations, no autocorrect on the keyboard, quicker killing of applications, memory pressure events integrated in the built-in applications so they clear out stuff when needed. More information can be found on the Tarako[1] info page at MDN. I saw the finished device (I have a dev version here with an old build) last week in Oslo and was surprised that it worked that well. Panning the homescreen had no jank and opening and closing apps was fairly fast. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/FirefoxOS/Tarako https://wiki.mozilla.org/FirefoxOS/Tarako
  - bgirard 12y ago
    That's right. On the graphics side if you drop the resolution of the screen you can drop a lot of memory and CPU power. Trading off features like pre-rendering (display port) on the newer builds will save you more memory and CPU cycles at the cost of waiting a bit of content to come in while scrolling. Really it means that any time you fall off the well optimized paths you're going to notice it more. It mean being more careful with how the app are designed and which feature they use. Of course content that really pushes the throughput like canvas games will be slower. But in those cases the browser's rendering pipeline (layout, style, visibility, display list) isn't running so you minimize the overhead there.
- burgers 12y ago
  Speaking of eBay, I grabbed my Open C for $45 with "Make an Offer". I've since loaded 2.1 on it and couldn't be happier. That said, my smart phone expectations are not that of the iPhone / Samsung variety. If you are not into spending the time compiling there is a very solid build on xda[1]. I needed to apply a font fix[2] when I tested it, so keep that in mind if your fonts look strange. I'm curious about which things you felt "scraped by". I definitely felt that on my original ZTE Open, and I immediately updated my Open C to 2.1 so I'm not sure if 1.3 is the difference there. One of the toughest things for this phone, in my opinion, is going to be websites that use a lot of memory. [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/firefox-os/general/zte-c-2-1-t2841460 http://forum.xda-developers.com/firefox-os/general/zte-c-2-1... [2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame#Font_fix https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...
discardorama 12y ago
Here are some reviews of the phone: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/mobiles/First-impressions-Intex-Cloud-FX-Firefox-OS-phone/articleshow/40868366.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/mobiles/First-impres... http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/reviews/intex-cloud-fx-indias-cheapest-smartphone-first-impressions-581818 http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/reviews/intex-cloud-fx-india... GSM, Camera, Wi-Fi, Micro-USB, Bluetooth, FM radio in a $33 device with a screen and 128MB memory?!?!
- nsomaru 12y ago
  From the Times review: "The phone needs constant connectivity to the internet, which could be a downer." Indeed. Especially due to: (1) affordability of data to the targeted segment (2) choked networks (I'm looking at you, Mumbai) (3) non-existent networks (4) weird 'in country' roaming that bundles don't transfer across, sometimes even within states (Mumbai, Pune) I've lived in India for a few years, and travelled in relatively rural local trains during the morning commute. There are lots of cheap Chinese Androids and some Samsungs too. The connectivity was intermittent and lots of people like doing stuff on their phones on the train, especially the more tech-inclined folks.
  - fabrice_d 12y ago
    Except that all the preloaded apps and many that you get from the marketplace work offline: all the resources are cached locally and evicted only when you uninstall the app. This misconception that "using web technologies" == "you need network access" is hard to correct unfortunately.
  - daleharvey 12y ago
    Just to clarify to "constant connectivity to the internet" That specifically refers to the Everything.me powered web search, all the core functionality of the phone works and behaves as you would expect it to offline And in the current versions of firefox OS, the Everything.me integration has been reworked to provide a better offline experience.
    - 12y ago
anigbrowl 12y ago
That price is in India. I wonder if they will sell it in the US and for how much.
LukeB_UK 12y ago
Unfortunately I think Apple may have a complaint with regards to the design.
msh 12y ago
hmm I think this kind of attack from the buttom is the only way for a new player to get a chance against android (it is not going so well for tizen among others who is expected to compete in the high end).
- lovelearning 12y ago
  That made me wonder why Mozilla is even entering this field. I must say I find their "mission"[1] quite noble: We’re out to make a difference, not a profit. When you choose Firefox OS, you’re helping build a brighter future for the Web and users everywhere. And elsewhere... Built entirely using HTML5 and other open Web standards, Firefox OS is free from the rules and restrictions of existing proprietary platforms. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/#mission https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/#mission
e15ctr0n 12y ago
If there's anyone looking to buy it or read up on the detailed specs, here's the link: http://www.snapdeal.com/product/intex-cloud-fx/1356760619 http://www.snapdeal.com/product/intex-cloud-fx/1356760619
- xur17 12y ago
  Do they deliver to the US? edit: It doesn't look like they do, and it appears to be exclusive to snapdeal.
  - aembleton 12y ago
    Wait a couple of weeks and then check on eBay.
- fafner 12y ago
  It's already sold out.
suprgeek 12y ago
India is a great market for a low cost smartphone. For a long time Nokia was king, both high-end to very-low end. There are many people who are now migrating off these cheap Nokia's into these tier-two companies, such as Micromax/Intex etc. Might as well they migrate to an open hackable platform - Two apps that really need to come pre-installed - WhatsApp & RedBus. I have been stunned when a village lady asked me if my phone had the bus schedule (the last time I was visiting). A 10 minute conversation with her changed my perspective significantly from the Silicon Valley bubble that I am usually surrounded by...
- janjongboom 12y ago
  ConnectA2, a WhatsApp client, comes bundled with the phone.
- darklajid 12y ago
  Actually for me the missing features are - a mail client that works well (and that includes at least push/imap idle support and SHOULD, in the RFC sense, include server side searches) - a client for xmpp Note that there are some apps for the latter use case, but those are either broken, incomplete, or use bosh to talk to a random untrusted server elsewhere which _then_ connects to the server you want to use. I might be able to forgive the lack of (decent, usable) xmpp support, but at the moment the limited mail client is the feature that keeps my Flame on my desk. A smart phone without emails is .. a tough sell, if you have a working solution on another platform. Even if you WANT to make the switch.
  - illumen 12y ago
    Background mode for apps! You know, so apps can be actually useful for mobile applications. This is the biggest missing feature by Mozilla, and it really shows their lack of understanding of how mobile apps work.
    - fabrice_d 12y ago
      The situation on background 'services' is not ideal that's true but it's not as bad as you paint it. Since v1.0 it's possible to wake up an app with the alarm api and let it run whatever it needs to. This is used eg. by the calendar app for periodic synchronization. The future is Service Workers, and support should be there in gecko by the end of the year. Note that anyway, you should always design your service as something that can be shutdown by the OS if it needs to allocate resources somewhere else.
personZ 12y ago
Using HTML5 enables the operating system to be very lean and it requires less memory consumption. This claim is deeply suspect.
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  Look at it this way: the web browser is probably the most resource intensive application run on most smartphones, and it's not a smartphone without a browser. Therefore total required resources is the OS+WM+browser+background apps (phone etc). In Firefox OS, the OS+WM+browser heavily share resources, allowing significant resource saving.
  - johnchristopher 12y ago
    But that means every app requires the "maximum" (each are like a browser instance) of resources then. Moreover, correct me if I am wrong, but data structures such as xml/sgml/xhtml tend to require a lot of memory (or a lot of cpu throughput to convert to simpler data structures).
    - judk 12y ago
      ML is 0% of the cost of a web app. JS and images and CSS flights of fancy make it expensive.
  - dubcanada 12y ago
    Clearly you've never opened up Facebook application. Talk about a resource hog...
    - munificent 12y ago
      Ironically, that's because it uses a browser internally for large chunks of its UI.
    - fabrice_d 12y ago
      Actually the mobile version of Facebook website is not bad. Twitter on the other side...
drblast 12y ago
At that price it's nearly disposable. I'd LOVE a phone like that; I have a hard time paying a lot for something that I carry and can easily break, especially since I'm not welded to my phone like most people seem to be.
rdl 12y ago
These will be so amazing as single-purpose secure devices. It might require new firmware, so I'm not sure how this works. (I'm increasingly convinced we need cheap and thus single-purpose devices for security. Even if we theoretically could build multi-compartment systems, user error often compromises them.)
vamega 12y ago
I'm in the US, and really want one or two of these!
parfe 12y ago
So no way to get this phone in the USA? Is there a rationale? Mozilla doesn't want consumers in developed economies buying it and complaining it doesn't compete with an S5 of iphone?
- asadotzler 12y ago
  Mozilla doesn't ship phones. Mozilla partners ship phones. Want Firefox OS phones in the US, start demanding them from the US-based carriers/operators who seem all too happy to focus on upscale users of iOS and Android.
- azakai 12y ago
  Mozilla doesn't build or sell the phone, it just makes the OS. If someone wants to build and market a phone to the US, they could do that. The OS is open source so they could do it with or without Mozilla involvement, even.
- xur17 12y ago
  Is there anything that keeps someone in India from buying a bunch, and shipping them to the US for resale?
  - wtmt 12y ago
    Nothing apart from shipping costs (which may be equal to the price of the phone) and handling payments (which includes trusting people). There's probably a "Raspberry Pi like" market for such devices. This device does seem deficient in (at least) two respects though - a 2MP camera and the absence of 3G. So I don't see non-enthusiasts from other countries really flocking to this one (or the other one from Spice launching tomorrow). P.S.: I'm in India and could send a few across, although I have no idea how much it would cost to ship, the shipping duration, reliability of delivery, insurance costs, etc. Overall, worldwide shipping from one country to another at a personal level is somewhat painful.
josu 12y ago
Is this a loss leader? Or what's their revenue model? I'm aware of this: >WSJD: What is your revenue model? And what is your target? Hsu: Mozilla is a nonprofit organization. We do need revenue for sure. For now our revenue is mainly from the desktop. We work with a lot of web content search engines and all the service providers; we have a revenue sharing model with them. We are targeting to see if we can reach one percent market share (of smartphones), and that’ll be a good beginning. We don’t know when but that’s our goal. But it just doesn't answer my question. I can't see how a $33 phone can be profitable, unless they expect to make more money after the sale.
- atopal 12y ago
  Well, Mozilla doesn't actually build or sell any phones. Mozilla just provides the OS. Since Intex is no charity, you should assume that they are still making a profit at $33.
- wmf 12y ago
  When you use Firefox to do a Google search, Mozilla makes money. If FxOS can take 1% of the smartphone market that may give ~$1M of incremental revenue from search alone.
ck2 12y ago
If the html runs on the phone completely and doesn't require remote rendering power, then such a device could be used as nifty self contained monitors for websites. Have a dozen servers? Well you could have a phone display for each one. But I guess at that scale you could just buy a 4k monitor and some kind of pc to power it too.
ck2 12y ago
Resolution 320x480 In 2014 ? That doesn't seem useful.
- testrun 12y ago
  It is also $33. In 2014.
- burgers 12y ago
  Have you used a 320x480 phone recently? It is still very usable for web browsing. It isn't super sharp, but in my experience there was rarely(honestly, I can't remember one but there likely was some) a time where the resolution prevented me from being able to read something.
diafygi 12y ago
I've been a huge fan of Firefox OS for a long time[1], but here's something I think many people here aren't realizing: Firefox OS considerably lowers the barriers to entry for app developers. Firefox OS apps are just html pages in a zip file, so all you need to create one is a text editor and a browser. In fact, Firefox will soon include an IDE[2], so you don't even need a text editor anymore. I think that will have a massive impact on how many developers will make apps for Firefox OS, especially local developing world apps. If you only have non-administrator access to a computer in an internet cafe or some other shared computer, you can probably still develop Firefox OS apps since it may already have Firefox installed. Additionally, there's millions of tutorials online about web development, many of which are very beginner friendly and in multiple languages. This extremely low barrier to entry will allow local communities to easily make apps that cater to just their local needs. Want to know where the best location to get water is? Want to know which farms in the area are hiring? Want to see the local mayor's latest scandalous photo? These all can be coded in a weekend at the local internet cafe. EDIT: Also, where can I buy one? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 [2] - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  You'll be able to develop on internet cafe and shared computers without needing to have Firefox installed if you have a USB drive with Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition [1] on it. The WebIDE is already available in Firefox 34 nightly builds, which are also portable [2]. You won't be able to install the drivers to connect to a Firefox OS device without admin rights, of course. [1] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable [2] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#nightly http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#...
  - iancarroll 12y ago
    I don't live anywhere near a startup "area", but has anyone actually seen an internet cafe that isn't locked with over protective software?
lucb1e 12y ago
I really don't like the WSJ. No paywall this time, but also no source links. I want to see Mozilla's announcement (if any), specs from the phone, whether I can buy it at all from abroad, etc. The article contains only one link: to the paywalled version of the article. Edit: took a few minutes but I've found the phone on Mozilla's website: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/#intex_cloudfx https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/#intex_clou... Also found their news blog which has nothing since February.
- rhelmer 12y ago
  Here is the Mozilla blog on the subject: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/08/25/first-firefox-os-smartphones-available-in-india-this-week/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/08/25/first-firefox-os-sm... The phone is for sale on snapdeal.com but I am not sure that it's available outside of India right now.
  - lucb1e 12y ago
    Ah different blog then. I would have wanted it to have GPS on board and it hasn't, so it's not for me anyway. Still too bad it's not available outside of India. I don't think it would take off like the Raspberry Pi but it would make a super cheap phone with decent capabilities to tinker with, or just to use as a secondary when you go to places where an expensive phone isn't safe. For this price you only get feature phones here, nothing with a modern OS.
Oculus 12y ago
This is what Amazon should've done with their phone - make it stupid cheap.
contingencies 12y ago
"Cloud", sigh. While this is a laudable product and price point, it is only a partial success. What people don't realize is that in these markets internet is prohibitively expensive for many people when accessed over cellular networks. This means people have to use wifi, which is typically sporadic, shared and unrealiable. Cheap smartphones in the really developing parts of the world will be revolutionary precisely when they have real ad-hoc and mesh networking over wifi and code that is built to take advantage: thus making distribution of content and applications far more seemless for the sporadically poorly connected masses, censorship impossible, news distribution democratic and non state-issued digital currencies viable. Imagine if someone can close-enough hack the identity problem (eg. using a signup delay, public/private keys, time (proof of work), rough geolocation, and unique email address as a mix) then political polls can be made this way. I don't think this is a pipe dream, because people in a lot of these areas do have shared, extremely pressing social concerns. Sexism (~50% of people), hatred for the corrupt local institutions (~95% of people), that sort of thing. Think of the Chinese child being run over video effect... meets ad-hoc virtually unmonitorable wifi meets irrefutable evidence of official corruption. Look at for instance the status of women in parts of south India, it's extremely oppressive. I think we're going to see riots, political change, new social models emerge as a result of the true application of these devices... but not just yet, because the features are missing! Apple and Google will probably never prioritize these features. Unfortunately, Firefox OS has not prioritized them either.* This is saddening. The door is open for motivated hacking! * https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945047 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945047
- fabrice_d 12y ago
  > The door is open for motivated hacking! Exactly! We are very interested in privacy, mesh networks, etc. (look for instance at the tor integration done by a moz employee on his free time at https://github.com/OrFoxOS https://github.com/OrFoxOS) But we have limited resources, and to be successful and get enough leverage we have to balance features that are market driven with our dream pipeline. Ultimately this is a good thing, because a purely hacker driven phone would probably not be the best one either ;)
Yaggo 12y ago
While the $33 is impressive price tag, just a reminder that you can buy a "Chinese" Android tablet with twice as capable hardware (800x480 screen, 512 MB ram etc) for $50.
- icebraining 12y ago
  Yeah, I got one for $45 with free shipping. And there actually some very cheap dual-sim Android phones with 512MB. But it depends on build quality, long term support (will the tablet receive OS updates? Unlikely), warranty, etc.
GFischer 12y ago
I hope carriers or sellers don't create unfullfilled expectations. Here in Uruguay, one of the carriers, Movistar, heavily marketed the Firefox OS phone, and quite a few non-techies bought them (including coworkers), and were VERY dissapointed when they found out it was very limited compared to similarly priced Android phones (one BIG disappointment was the lack of WhatsApp, a deal-breaker in my country). Edit: it seems that "ConnectA2, a WhatsApp client, comes bundled with the phone". Good point :) Firefox OS needs to be able to combat the network effect of Android and iOS, or it will fail. Windows Phone already suffers from the same. http://firefoxosguide.com/firefox-os/firefox-os-accounted-30-smartphone-sales-movistar-uruguay-holidays.html/ http://firefoxosguide.com/firefox-os/firefox-os-accounted-30...

271 points by rhelmer 12y ago

lovelearning 12y ago

They've managed to deploy Firefox OS - which is based on AOSP - on just 128 MB of RAM? I'm impressed!

Hario 12y ago
AOSP?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ktsmith 12y ago
  Android Open Source Project
- dublinben 12y ago
  Android Open Source Project. The base for every Android phone.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
wmf 12y ago
The promise of FxOS is that it should be lighter than Android because it strips out layers like SurfaceFlinger. Until now that hasn't really been delivered; I wonder if this phone is actually usable.
valarauca1 12y ago
AOSP: As "Android Open Source Project"? Also did some googling, yes FireFoxOS is based on AOSP, or at least its a dependency in the build. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Building_and_installing_Firefox_OS/Firefox_OS_build_process_summary https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Building_and_...
briandh 12y ago
For those curious -- like I was -- apparently the part based on AOSP is the low-level "infrastructure layer", Gonk: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Platform/Architecture https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Platform/Arch... They also used associated tools like fastboot and adb.
asadotzler 12y ago
"Based on AOSP" adds more confusion than clarity to the discussion. Firefox OS is based on the Android Linux kernel and uses the Android HAL and some other low level bits but it is not Android or even very similar to Android above the HAL.

makmanalp 12y ago

$33? That's basically a raspberry pi with GSM for an amazing price. If I could pop open the case to get to pins or have a video out or something, this would be game changing.

bradfa 12y ago
Is it not game changing just being a $33 smart phone? Heck, I pay more than $33 per month for my smart phone service!
- zanny 12y ago
  I recently started using Freedompop, which gives 200 minutes and 500 messages and megabytes for free each month. Tried their higher tier services - they work great. But I don't need them. So I've been paying $0 in phone service for a few months now. It is only limited by Sprint's 3G coverage, and if its available you use the 4G instead. They even have a nice $70 a year unlimited minutes and messages plan (same 500mb of data - I don't think their data rates are competitive at all imo, but then again no phone companies data rates are competitive unless you had exactly 7 people on a tmobile plan). This is after trying out Tracfone, Republic Wireless, and Ting. It is really hard to argue paying monthly if you don't have to.
  - aembleton 12y ago
    Just be warned that you might lose service if they fail to pay their bills to their network provider. I was with a similar sounding MVNO in the UK called Ovivo. Fortunately I switched away but just one month later all subscribers were cut off: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2014/03/sim-only-provider-ovivo-shuts-down-know-your-rights http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2014/03/sim-... Free is brilliant if there is a viable business model to make it pay.
    - zanny 12y ago
      I heard about them a year ago, but they started out in like 2010 and had to switch from Clear WiMax to Sprint at the time, and yeah, I had no confidence in their long term viability. A year later, they were still going, so I gave it a shot. I don't regret it. If the floor falls out, every sane MVNO in the US is Sprint based anyway and I can move my phone to any of them.

xanderstrike 12y ago

I've been using the Open C for a couple weeks now, and while it continues to surprise with how capable it is, it consistently seems to just barely scrape by on the hardware (512mb RAM, 1.2ghz dual core). I wonder what sorts of concessions had to be made to make this $33 phone a reality. Will it be all that different from symbian feature phone? Either way, I'll be buying one when it goes up on ebay.

janjongboom 12y ago
From the top of my head: less animations, no autocorrect on the keyboard, quicker killing of applications, memory pressure events integrated in the built-in applications so they clear out stuff when needed. More information can be found on the Tarako[1] info page at MDN. I saw the finished device (I have a dev version here with an old build) last week in Oslo and was surprised that it worked that well. Panning the homescreen had no jank and opening and closing apps was fairly fast. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/FirefoxOS/Tarako https://wiki.mozilla.org/FirefoxOS/Tarako
- bgirard 12y ago
  That's right. On the graphics side if you drop the resolution of the screen you can drop a lot of memory and CPU power. Trading off features like pre-rendering (display port) on the newer builds will save you more memory and CPU cycles at the cost of waiting a bit of content to come in while scrolling. Really it means that any time you fall off the well optimized paths you're going to notice it more. It mean being more careful with how the app are designed and which feature they use. Of course content that really pushes the throughput like canvas games will be slower. But in those cases the browser's rendering pipeline (layout, style, visibility, display list) isn't running so you minimize the overhead there.
burgers 12y ago
Speaking of eBay, I grabbed my Open C for $45 with "Make an Offer". I've since loaded 2.1 on it and couldn't be happier. That said, my smart phone expectations are not that of the iPhone / Samsung variety. If you are not into spending the time compiling there is a very solid build on xda[1]. I needed to apply a font fix[2] when I tested it, so keep that in mind if your fonts look strange. I'm curious about which things you felt "scraped by". I definitely felt that on my original ZTE Open, and I immediately updated my Open C to 2.1 so I'm not sure if 1.3 is the difference there. One of the toughest things for this phone, in my opinion, is going to be websites that use a lot of memory. [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/firefox-os/general/zte-c-2-1-t2841460 http://forum.xda-developers.com/firefox-os/general/zte-c-2-1... [2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame#Font_fix https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...

discardorama 12y ago

Here are some reviews of the phone: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/mobiles/First-impressions-Intex-Cloud-FX-Firefox-OS-phone/articleshow/40868366.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/mobiles/First-impres... http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/reviews/intex-cloud-fx-indias-cheapest-smartphone-first-impressions-581818 http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/reviews/intex-cloud-fx-india... GSM, Camera, Wi-Fi, Micro-USB, Bluetooth, FM radio in a $33 device with a screen and 128MB memory?!?!

nsomaru 12y ago
From the Times review: "The phone needs constant connectivity to the internet, which could be a downer." Indeed. Especially due to: (1) affordability of data to the targeted segment (2) choked networks (I'm looking at you, Mumbai) (3) non-existent networks (4) weird 'in country' roaming that bundles don't transfer across, sometimes even within states (Mumbai, Pune) I've lived in India for a few years, and travelled in relatively rural local trains during the morning commute. There are lots of cheap Chinese Androids and some Samsungs too. The connectivity was intermittent and lots of people like doing stuff on their phones on the train, especially the more tech-inclined folks.
- fabrice_d 12y ago
  Except that all the preloaded apps and many that you get from the marketplace work offline: all the resources are cached locally and evicted only when you uninstall the app. This misconception that "using web technologies" == "you need network access" is hard to correct unfortunately.
- daleharvey 12y ago
  Just to clarify to "constant connectivity to the internet" That specifically refers to the Everything.me powered web search, all the core functionality of the phone works and behaves as you would expect it to offline And in the current versions of firefox OS, the Everything.me integration has been reworked to provide a better offline experience.
  - 12y ago

anigbrowl 12y ago

That price is in India. I wonder if they will sell it in the US and for how much.

LukeB_UK 12y ago

Unfortunately I think Apple may have a complaint with regards to the design.

msh 12y ago

hmm I think this kind of attack from the buttom is the only way for a new player to get a chance against android (it is not going so well for tizen among others who is expected to compete in the high end).

lovelearning 12y ago
That made me wonder why Mozilla is even entering this field. I must say I find their "mission"[1] quite noble: We’re out to make a difference, not a profit. When you choose Firefox OS, you’re helping build a brighter future for the Web and users everywhere. And elsewhere... Built entirely using HTML5 and other open Web standards, Firefox OS is free from the rules and restrictions of existing proprietary platforms. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/#mission https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/#mission

e15ctr0n 12y ago

If there's anyone looking to buy it or read up on the detailed specs, here's the link: http://www.snapdeal.com/product/intex-cloud-fx/1356760619 http://www.snapdeal.com/product/intex-cloud-fx/1356760619

xur17 12y ago
Do they deliver to the US? edit: It doesn't look like they do, and it appears to be exclusive to snapdeal.
- aembleton 12y ago
  Wait a couple of weeks and then check on eBay.
fafner 12y ago
It's already sold out.

suprgeek 12y ago

India is a great market for a low cost smartphone. For a long time Nokia was king, both high-end to very-low end. There are many people who are now migrating off these cheap Nokia's into these tier-two companies, such as Micromax/Intex etc. Might as well they migrate to an open hackable platform - Two apps that really need to come pre-installed - WhatsApp & RedBus. I have been stunned when a village lady asked me if my phone had the bus schedule (the last time I was visiting). A 10 minute conversation with her changed my perspective significantly from the Silicon Valley bubble that I am usually surrounded by...

janjongboom 12y ago
ConnectA2, a WhatsApp client, comes bundled with the phone.
darklajid 12y ago
Actually for me the missing features are - a mail client that works well (and that includes at least push/imap idle support and SHOULD, in the RFC sense, include server side searches) - a client for xmpp Note that there are some apps for the latter use case, but those are either broken, incomplete, or use bosh to talk to a random untrusted server elsewhere which _then_ connects to the server you want to use. I might be able to forgive the lack of (decent, usable) xmpp support, but at the moment the limited mail client is the feature that keeps my Flame on my desk. A smart phone without emails is .. a tough sell, if you have a working solution on another platform. Even if you WANT to make the switch.
- illumen 12y ago
  Background mode for apps! You know, so apps can be actually useful for mobile applications. This is the biggest missing feature by Mozilla, and it really shows their lack of understanding of how mobile apps work.
  - fabrice_d 12y ago
    The situation on background 'services' is not ideal that's true but it's not as bad as you paint it. Since v1.0 it's possible to wake up an app with the alarm api and let it run whatever it needs to. This is used eg. by the calendar app for periodic synchronization. The future is Service Workers, and support should be there in gecko by the end of the year. Note that anyway, you should always design your service as something that can be shutdown by the OS if it needs to allocate resources somewhere else.

personZ 12y ago

Using HTML5 enables the operating system to be very lean and it requires less memory consumption. This claim is deeply suspect.

bryanlarsen 12y ago
Look at it this way: the web browser is probably the most resource intensive application run on most smartphones, and it's not a smartphone without a browser. Therefore total required resources is the OS+WM+browser+background apps (phone etc). In Firefox OS, the OS+WM+browser heavily share resources, allowing significant resource saving.
- johnchristopher 12y ago
  But that means every app requires the "maximum" (each are like a browser instance) of resources then. Moreover, correct me if I am wrong, but data structures such as xml/sgml/xhtml tend to require a lot of memory (or a lot of cpu throughput to convert to simpler data structures).
  - judk 12y ago
    ML is 0% of the cost of a web app. JS and images and CSS flights of fancy make it expensive.
- dubcanada 12y ago
  Clearly you've never opened up Facebook application. Talk about a resource hog...
  - munificent 12y ago
    Ironically, that's because it uses a browser internally for large chunks of its UI.
  - fabrice_d 12y ago
    Actually the mobile version of Facebook website is not bad. Twitter on the other side...

drblast 12y ago

At that price it's nearly disposable. I'd LOVE a phone like that; I have a hard time paying a lot for something that I carry and can easily break, especially since I'm not welded to my phone like most people seem to be.

rdl 12y ago

These will be so amazing as single-purpose secure devices. It might require new firmware, so I'm not sure how this works. (I'm increasingly convinced we need cheap and thus single-purpose devices for security. Even if we theoretically could build multi-compartment systems, user error often compromises them.)

vamega 12y ago

I'm in the US, and really want one or two of these!

parfe 12y ago

So no way to get this phone in the USA? Is there a rationale? Mozilla doesn't want consumers in developed economies buying it and complaining it doesn't compete with an S5 of iphone?

asadotzler 12y ago
Mozilla doesn't ship phones. Mozilla partners ship phones. Want Firefox OS phones in the US, start demanding them from the US-based carriers/operators who seem all too happy to focus on upscale users of iOS and Android.
azakai 12y ago
Mozilla doesn't build or sell the phone, it just makes the OS. If someone wants to build and market a phone to the US, they could do that. The OS is open source so they could do it with or without Mozilla involvement, even.
xur17 12y ago
Is there anything that keeps someone in India from buying a bunch, and shipping them to the US for resale?
- wtmt 12y ago
  Nothing apart from shipping costs (which may be equal to the price of the phone) and handling payments (which includes trusting people). There's probably a "Raspberry Pi like" market for such devices. This device does seem deficient in (at least) two respects though - a 2MP camera and the absence of 3G. So I don't see non-enthusiasts from other countries really flocking to this one (or the other one from Spice launching tomorrow). P.S.: I'm in India and could send a few across, although I have no idea how much it would cost to ship, the shipping duration, reliability of delivery, insurance costs, etc. Overall, worldwide shipping from one country to another at a personal level is somewhat painful.

josu 12y ago

Is this a loss leader? Or what's their revenue model? I'm aware of this: >WSJD: What is your revenue model? And what is your target? Hsu: Mozilla is a nonprofit organization. We do need revenue for sure. For now our revenue is mainly from the desktop. We work with a lot of web content search engines and all the service providers; we have a revenue sharing model with them. We are targeting to see if we can reach one percent market share (of smartphones), and that’ll be a good beginning. We don’t know when but that’s our goal. But it just doesn't answer my question. I can't see how a $33 phone can be profitable, unless they expect to make more money after the sale.

atopal 12y ago
Well, Mozilla doesn't actually build or sell any phones. Mozilla just provides the OS. Since Intex is no charity, you should assume that they are still making a profit at $33.
wmf 12y ago
When you use Firefox to do a Google search, Mozilla makes money. If FxOS can take 1% of the smartphone market that may give ~$1M of incremental revenue from search alone.

ck2 12y ago

If the html runs on the phone completely and doesn't require remote rendering power, then such a device could be used as nifty self contained monitors for websites. Have a dozen servers? Well you could have a phone display for each one. But I guess at that scale you could just buy a 4k monitor and some kind of pc to power it too.

ck2 12y ago

Resolution 320x480 In 2014 ? That doesn't seem useful.

testrun 12y ago
It is also $33. In 2014.
burgers 12y ago
Have you used a 320x480 phone recently? It is still very usable for web browsing. It isn't super sharp, but in my experience there was rarely(honestly, I can't remember one but there likely was some) a time where the resolution prevented me from being able to read something.

diafygi 12y ago

I've been a huge fan of Firefox OS for a long time[1], but here's something I think many people here aren't realizing: Firefox OS considerably lowers the barriers to entry for app developers. Firefox OS apps are just html pages in a zip file, so all you need to create one is a text editor and a browser. In fact, Firefox will soon include an IDE[2], so you don't even need a text editor anymore. I think that will have a massive impact on how many developers will make apps for Firefox OS, especially local developing world apps. If you only have non-administrator access to a computer in an internet cafe or some other shared computer, you can probably still develop Firefox OS apps since it may already have Firefox installed. Additionally, there's millions of tutorials online about web development, many of which are very beginner friendly and in multiple languages. This extremely low barrier to entry will allow local communities to easily make apps that cater to just their local needs. Want to know where the best location to get water is? Want to know which farms in the area are hiring? Want to see the local mayor's latest scandalous photo? These all can be coded in a weekend at the local internet cafe. EDIT: Also, where can I buy one? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 [2] - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/WebIDE

JohnTHaller 12y ago
You'll be able to develop on internet cafe and shared computers without needing to have Firefox installed if you have a USB drive with Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition [1] on it. The WebIDE is already available in Firefox 34 nightly builds, which are also portable [2]. You won't be able to install the drivers to connect to a Firefox OS device without admin rights, of course. [1] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable [2] - http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#nightly http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable/test#...
- iancarroll 12y ago
  I don't live anywhere near a startup "area", but has anyone actually seen an internet cafe that isn't locked with over protective software?

lucb1e 12y ago

I really don't like the WSJ. No paywall this time, but also no source links. I want to see Mozilla's announcement (if any), specs from the phone, whether I can buy it at all from abroad, etc. The article contains only one link: to the paywalled version of the article. Edit: took a few minutes but I've found the phone on Mozilla's website: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/#intex_cloudfx https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/#intex_clou... Also found their news blog which has nothing since February.

rhelmer 12y ago
Here is the Mozilla blog on the subject: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/08/25/first-firefox-os-smartphones-available-in-india-this-week/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/08/25/first-firefox-os-sm... The phone is for sale on snapdeal.com but I am not sure that it's available outside of India right now.
- lucb1e 12y ago
  Ah different blog then. I would have wanted it to have GPS on board and it hasn't, so it's not for me anyway. Still too bad it's not available outside of India. I don't think it would take off like the Raspberry Pi but it would make a super cheap phone with decent capabilities to tinker with, or just to use as a secondary when you go to places where an expensive phone isn't safe. For this price you only get feature phones here, nothing with a modern OS.

Oculus 12y ago

This is what Amazon should've done with their phone - make it stupid cheap.

contingencies 12y ago

"Cloud", sigh. While this is a laudable product and price point, it is only a partial success. What people don't realize is that in these markets internet is prohibitively expensive for many people when accessed over cellular networks. This means people have to use wifi, which is typically sporadic, shared and unrealiable. Cheap smartphones in the really developing parts of the world will be revolutionary precisely when they have real ad-hoc and mesh networking over wifi and code that is built to take advantage: thus making distribution of content and applications far more seemless for the sporadically poorly connected masses, censorship impossible, news distribution democratic and non state-issued digital currencies viable. Imagine if someone can close-enough hack the identity problem (eg. using a signup delay, public/private keys, time (proof of work), rough geolocation, and unique email address as a mix) then political polls can be made this way. I don't think this is a pipe dream, because people in a lot of these areas do have shared, extremely pressing social concerns. Sexism (~50% of people), hatred for the corrupt local institutions (~95% of people), that sort of thing. Think of the Chinese child being run over video effect... meets ad-hoc virtually unmonitorable wifi meets irrefutable evidence of official corruption. Look at for instance the status of women in parts of south India, it's extremely oppressive. I think we're going to see riots, political change, new social models emerge as a result of the true application of these devices... but not just yet, because the features are missing! Apple and Google will probably never prioritize these features. Unfortunately, Firefox OS has not prioritized them either.* This is saddening. The door is open for motivated hacking! * https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945047 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945047

fabrice_d 12y ago
> The door is open for motivated hacking! Exactly! We are very interested in privacy, mesh networks, etc. (look for instance at the tor integration done by a moz employee on his free time at https://github.com/OrFoxOS https://github.com/OrFoxOS) But we have limited resources, and to be successful and get enough leverage we have to balance features that are market driven with our dream pipeline. Ultimately this is a good thing, because a purely hacker driven phone would probably not be the best one either ;)

Yaggo 12y ago

While the $33 is impressive price tag, just a reminder that you can buy a "Chinese" Android tablet with twice as capable hardware (800x480 screen, 512 MB ram etc) for $50.

icebraining 12y ago
Yeah, I got one for $45 with free shipping. And there actually some very cheap dual-sim Android phones with 512MB. But it depends on build quality, long term support (will the tablet receive OS updates? Unlikely), warranty, etc.

GFischer 12y ago

I hope carriers or sellers don't create unfullfilled expectations. Here in Uruguay, one of the carriers, Movistar, heavily marketed the Firefox OS phone, and quite a few non-techies bought them (including coworkers), and were VERY dissapointed when they found out it was very limited compared to similarly priced Android phones (one BIG disappointment was the lack of WhatsApp, a deal-breaker in my country). Edit: it seems that "ConnectA2, a WhatsApp client, comes bundled with the phone". Good point :) Firefox OS needs to be able to combat the network effect of Android and iOS, or it will fail. Windows Phone already suffers from the same. http://firefoxosguide.com/firefox-os/firefox-os-accounted-30-smartphone-sales-movistar-uruguay-holidays.html/ http://firefoxosguide.com/firefox-os/firefox-os-accounted-30...