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I have no idea what the culture is like at Google NYC. For that matter, I have no idea what the culture is like at Google Mountain View right now. But 'round

I have no idea what the culture is like at Google NYC. For that matter, I have no idea what the culture is like at Google Mountain View right now. But 'round about 2006 or so, when, in my view, Google was at the very height of its reputation, my social circle included a fair number of Googlers. They seemed dazed and confused on the rare occasions that they left the campus. They socialized largely with other Googlers. They worked super long hours. That's not scientific and who knows, maybe the people I knew weren't representative. But my strong impression at the time, based on Google people I knew, was that the campus was a gilded cage.

aboodman 12y ago
Well that's all dependent on the caged's perspective, right? I worked long hours when I first joined Google. I wasn't at all unhappy about it though.
- minwcnt5 12y ago
  I think that's fairly common. When I was young and single, when it was my first real job after university, I worked a lot too. I didn't have a lot of obligations, didn't know a lot of people in the bay area, the room for career growth was tremendous, and there was always that imposter syndrome in the back of my mind where I wasn't 100% sure if I would end up meeting expectations. But after a year with good performance reviews and maybe even getting promoted, all that tends to subside. Some people are really driven to climb the ladder or love their jobs and work more, but that's hardly unique to Google or even tech. Frankly, I never found Google much different at all in that respect from other places that don't have the same perks. If anything, all the amenities make it more common and acceptable to spend time away from your desk, so I felt less pressure to be at my desk N hours per day to keep up the appearance of being hard-working than at other companies. For all those people with anecdotes about their friends working insane hours at Google: How many of them had worked at other large companies previously? How many of them had families?
mtVessel 12y ago
Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? If the choice is a) drab cage or b) gilded cage, I'll take the one with the subsidized lunch and massage chairs, thanks.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  > Isn't that just the reality of the field? Nope. I'm at a SF startup now, and work/life balance is extremely important in company culture. No one is squeezed for productivity.
- danielweber 12y ago
  You only get forced to work overtime if you can't stand up for yourself. NB: It took me a while to stand up for myself.
- Iftheshoefits 12y ago
  It's the reality if a person allows it to be. I suppose if one prioritizes his own personal life lower, or identifies himself by his commitments to his professional life or by the company he works for, then the negative connotation of "squeezed" doesn't really apply. The reality, however, for the vast majority of programmers, is that like in every other industry there is a huge imbalance of power and more often than not employers (e.g., Google) are all too happy to exploit that imbalance, along with individual programmers' enthusiasm, to their own benefit. Personal opinion, likely to be unpopular here: one of the reasons wages in our industry aren't higher is because of people who merely accept the "cage" as the status quo--but people who proudly enter the "gilded cage" of certain employers are the worst offenders. One need but look to the video game industry for a prime example of the above mentioned exploitation and depression of wages as an extreme example.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? I don't know any developers who work more than 50 hours a week. Most of them work 40 hours or less, and a lot of them don't even have their work hours tracked.

aboodman 12y ago

Well that's all dependent on the caged's perspective, right? I worked long hours when I first joined Google. I wasn't at all unhappy about it though.

minwcnt5 12y ago
I think that's fairly common. When I was young and single, when it was my first real job after university, I worked a lot too. I didn't have a lot of obligations, didn't know a lot of people in the bay area, the room for career growth was tremendous, and there was always that imposter syndrome in the back of my mind where I wasn't 100% sure if I would end up meeting expectations. But after a year with good performance reviews and maybe even getting promoted, all that tends to subside. Some people are really driven to climb the ladder or love their jobs and work more, but that's hardly unique to Google or even tech. Frankly, I never found Google much different at all in that respect from other places that don't have the same perks. If anything, all the amenities make it more common and acceptable to spend time away from your desk, so I felt less pressure to be at my desk N hours per day to keep up the appearance of being hard-working than at other companies. For all those people with anecdotes about their friends working insane hours at Google: How many of them had worked at other large companies previously? How many of them had families?

mtVessel 12y ago

Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? If the choice is a) drab cage or b) gilded cage, I'll take the one with the subsidized lunch and massage chairs, thanks.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
> Isn't that just the reality of the field? Nope. I'm at a SF startup now, and work/life balance is extremely important in company culture. No one is squeezed for productivity.
danielweber 12y ago
You only get forced to work overtime if you can't stand up for yourself. NB: It took me a while to stand up for myself.
Iftheshoefits 12y ago
It's the reality if a person allows it to be. I suppose if one prioritizes his own personal life lower, or identifies himself by his commitments to his professional life or by the company he works for, then the negative connotation of "squeezed" doesn't really apply. The reality, however, for the vast majority of programmers, is that like in every other industry there is a huge imbalance of power and more often than not employers (e.g., Google) are all too happy to exploit that imbalance, along with individual programmers' enthusiasm, to their own benefit. Personal opinion, likely to be unpopular here: one of the reasons wages in our industry aren't higher is because of people who merely accept the "cage" as the status quo--but people who proudly enter the "gilded cage" of certain employers are the worst offenders. One need but look to the video game industry for a prime example of the above mentioned exploitation and depression of wages as an extreme example.
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? I don't know any developers who work more than 50 hours a week. Most of them work 40 hours or less, and a lot of them don't even have their work hours tracked.