5 ms·

"The first set are designed to keep you at work for as long as possible..." Jesus Christ, when will this meme die? Google doesn't provide those things "to keep

"The first set are designed to keep you at work for as long as possible..." Jesus Christ, when will this meme die? Google doesn't provide those things "to keep you at work for as long as possible," they provide them because the company believes in the simple idea that: happy employees == productive employees. I can't possibly understand why people think Googlers are overworked. I work between 25-30 hours a week. Most of peers work 30-35. Nobody I know works more than 40 here. (In NYC!) There are plenty of faults to be found with this company, like any other, but this is absolutely not one of them.

aetherson 12y ago
I have no idea what the culture is like at Google NYC. For that matter, I have no idea what the culture is like at Google Mountain View right now. But 'round about 2006 or so, when, in my view, Google was at the very height of its reputation, my social circle included a fair number of Googlers. They seemed dazed and confused on the rare occasions that they left the campus. They socialized largely with other Googlers. They worked super long hours. That's not scientific and who knows, maybe the people I knew weren't representative. But my strong impression at the time, based on Google people I knew, was that the campus was a gilded cage.
- aboodman 12y ago
  Well that's all dependent on the caged's perspective, right? I worked long hours when I first joined Google. I wasn't at all unhappy about it though.
  - minwcnt5 12y ago
    I think that's fairly common. When I was young and single, when it was my first real job after university, I worked a lot too. I didn't have a lot of obligations, didn't know a lot of people in the bay area, the room for career growth was tremendous, and there was always that imposter syndrome in the back of my mind where I wasn't 100% sure if I would end up meeting expectations. But after a year with good performance reviews and maybe even getting promoted, all that tends to subside. Some people are really driven to climb the ladder or love their jobs and work more, but that's hardly unique to Google or even tech. Frankly, I never found Google much different at all in that respect from other places that don't have the same perks. If anything, all the amenities make it more common and acceptable to spend time away from your desk, so I felt less pressure to be at my desk N hours per day to keep up the appearance of being hard-working than at other companies. For all those people with anecdotes about their friends working insane hours at Google: How many of them had worked at other large companies previously? How many of them had families?
- mtVessel 12y ago
  Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? If the choice is a) drab cage or b) gilded cage, I'll take the one with the subsidized lunch and massage chairs, thanks.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    > Isn't that just the reality of the field? Nope. I'm at a SF startup now, and work/life balance is extremely important in company culture. No one is squeezed for productivity.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    You only get forced to work overtime if you can't stand up for yourself. NB: It took me a while to stand up for myself.
  - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
    It's the reality if a person allows it to be. I suppose if one prioritizes his own personal life lower, or identifies himself by his commitments to his professional life or by the company he works for, then the negative connotation of "squeezed" doesn't really apply. The reality, however, for the vast majority of programmers, is that like in every other industry there is a huge imbalance of power and more often than not employers (e.g., Google) are all too happy to exploit that imbalance, along with individual programmers' enthusiasm, to their own benefit. Personal opinion, likely to be unpopular here: one of the reasons wages in our industry aren't higher is because of people who merely accept the "cage" as the status quo--but people who proudly enter the "gilded cage" of certain employers are the worst offenders. One need but look to the video game industry for a prime example of the above mentioned exploitation and depression of wages as an extreme example.
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    >>Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? I don't know any developers who work more than 50 hours a week. Most of them work 40 hours or less, and a lot of them don't even have their work hours tracked.
moultano 12y ago
After my experience at Google I'd recommend that any company of sufficient size provide tasty convenient lunch for free. It's a huge productivity boost. At other companies, I've seen people waste an hour and a half every day assembling people to go out for lunch, order, wait, figure out how to split up the bill, drive back. Much easier to just take that off people's minds. Dinner and breakfast aren't as useful to provide and I don't think comparatively many Googlers take advantage of them (though breakfast is nice if you have a very long commute.) I did when I was young and single, but no longer. However, I'm virtually certain that providing lunch is a very cost effective way of getting more work done and is a win/win for everyone.
- jrs235 12y ago
  Good point. I wonder how much cognitive resources are wasted during that exercise. It probably adds to mental fatigue and harms mental clarity.
  - fletchowns 12y ago
    I really have a hard time believing that going out to lunch with coworkers "adds to mental fatigue and harms mental clarity".
    - krapp 12y ago
      That kind of depends on where you go...
      - cheepin 12y ago
        Aim for the Balmer peak.
  - majani 12y ago
    are you being serious?
- afterburner 12y ago
  Unfortunately, morale isn't nearly as easy to measure as bottom line savings on hiring a sub-par food service.
miles932 12y ago
This (that the workplace is fair, hours are reasonable, and it's generally a great place to work IMHO) is true from personal experience.
untog 12y ago
NYC is very different, though. The offices are in the middle of Manhattan. Very different to the isolated Google campus.
johan_larson 12y ago
Yes, when I was there (2010-2013), the people I knew at Google generally kept business hours or close to it. I suspect the company was a more intense place to work when it was younger and fighting to get to profitability. There are probably also newer units within Google that haven't made it yet and are pushing hard to get there. But the part I was in (ads) wasn't like that.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jbdigriz 12y ago
Apparently that simple idea was lost at the highest levels of management during the YEARS they wantonly colluded with other tech companies, including competitors to suppress wages and cross hiring of the most talented technologists, plundering BILLIONS from the very people they claim to hold in the highest regard. Not only is that conniving, backstabbing behavior reprehensible and the epitome of "being evil" in a modern civilized society, they managed to come off looking like weak, bumbling cowards in the process. And if their attempts to suppress explicit evidence clearly detailing their feudalistic aspirations wasn't proof enough, they come back with a blatantly laughable settlement offer to make it official. Don't be fooled by the propaganda - actions always speak louder than words and Google has made clear where they stand. I've been working in investment banking technology for top tier firms for nearly a decade and can't recall any cases where trends of thousands of current and past employees laid a billion dollar class action lawsuit on their employers. And this in a sector which employs FAR more people and is regularly accused of working employees literally to death. You've got a lot of growing up to do, Google - and I can rightfully express that sentiment in the most condescending tone possible from the safety of my moral high ground.
sweeney2066 12y ago
25-35 hour work weeks certainly sounds like it should be the norm. I'm curious.. is it efficiency or focus or what that makes the less hours enough.

aetherson 12y ago

I have no idea what the culture is like at Google NYC. For that matter, I have no idea what the culture is like at Google Mountain View right now. But 'round about 2006 or so, when, in my view, Google was at the very height of its reputation, my social circle included a fair number of Googlers. They seemed dazed and confused on the rare occasions that they left the campus. They socialized largely with other Googlers. They worked super long hours. That's not scientific and who knows, maybe the people I knew weren't representative. But my strong impression at the time, based on Google people I knew, was that the campus was a gilded cage.

aboodman 12y ago
Well that's all dependent on the caged's perspective, right? I worked long hours when I first joined Google. I wasn't at all unhappy about it though.
- minwcnt5 12y ago
  I think that's fairly common. When I was young and single, when it was my first real job after university, I worked a lot too. I didn't have a lot of obligations, didn't know a lot of people in the bay area, the room for career growth was tremendous, and there was always that imposter syndrome in the back of my mind where I wasn't 100% sure if I would end up meeting expectations. But after a year with good performance reviews and maybe even getting promoted, all that tends to subside. Some people are really driven to climb the ladder or love their jobs and work more, but that's hardly unique to Google or even tech. Frankly, I never found Google much different at all in that respect from other places that don't have the same perks. If anything, all the amenities make it more common and acceptable to spend time away from your desk, so I felt less pressure to be at my desk N hours per day to keep up the appearance of being hard-working than at other companies. For all those people with anecdotes about their friends working insane hours at Google: How many of them had worked at other large companies previously? How many of them had families?
mtVessel 12y ago
Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? If the choice is a) drab cage or b) gilded cage, I'll take the one with the subsidized lunch and massage chairs, thanks.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  > Isn't that just the reality of the field? Nope. I'm at a SF startup now, and work/life balance is extremely important in company culture. No one is squeezed for productivity.
- danielweber 12y ago
  You only get forced to work overtime if you can't stand up for yourself. NB: It took me a while to stand up for myself.
- Iftheshoefits 12y ago
  It's the reality if a person allows it to be. I suppose if one prioritizes his own personal life lower, or identifies himself by his commitments to his professional life or by the company he works for, then the negative connotation of "squeezed" doesn't really apply. The reality, however, for the vast majority of programmers, is that like in every other industry there is a huge imbalance of power and more often than not employers (e.g., Google) are all too happy to exploit that imbalance, along with individual programmers' enthusiasm, to their own benefit. Personal opinion, likely to be unpopular here: one of the reasons wages in our industry aren't higher is because of people who merely accept the "cage" as the status quo--but people who proudly enter the "gilded cage" of certain employers are the worst offenders. One need but look to the video game industry for a prime example of the above mentioned exploitation and depression of wages as an extreme example.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>Fine, but every developer I know works long hours and is squeezed for productivity. Isn't that just the reality of the field? I don't know any developers who work more than 50 hours a week. Most of them work 40 hours or less, and a lot of them don't even have their work hours tracked.

moultano 12y ago

After my experience at Google I'd recommend that any company of sufficient size provide tasty convenient lunch for free. It's a huge productivity boost. At other companies, I've seen people waste an hour and a half every day assembling people to go out for lunch, order, wait, figure out how to split up the bill, drive back. Much easier to just take that off people's minds. Dinner and breakfast aren't as useful to provide and I don't think comparatively many Googlers take advantage of them (though breakfast is nice if you have a very long commute.) I did when I was young and single, but no longer. However, I'm virtually certain that providing lunch is a very cost effective way of getting more work done and is a win/win for everyone.

jrs235 12y ago
Good point. I wonder how much cognitive resources are wasted during that exercise. It probably adds to mental fatigue and harms mental clarity.
- fletchowns 12y ago
  I really have a hard time believing that going out to lunch with coworkers "adds to mental fatigue and harms mental clarity".
  - krapp 12y ago
    That kind of depends on where you go...
    - cheepin 12y ago
      Aim for the Balmer peak.
- majani 12y ago
  are you being serious?
afterburner 12y ago
Unfortunately, morale isn't nearly as easy to measure as bottom line savings on hiring a sub-par food service.

miles932 12y ago

This (that the workplace is fair, hours are reasonable, and it's generally a great place to work IMHO) is true from personal experience.

untog 12y ago

NYC is very different, though. The offices are in the middle of Manhattan. Very different to the isolated Google campus.

johan_larson 12y ago

Yes, when I was there (2010-2013), the people I knew at Google generally kept business hours or close to it. I suspect the company was a more intense place to work when it was younger and fighting to get to profitability. There are probably also newer units within Google that haven't made it yet and are pushing hard to get there. But the part I was in (ads) wasn't like that.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

jbdigriz 12y ago

Apparently that simple idea was lost at the highest levels of management during the YEARS they wantonly colluded with other tech companies, including competitors to suppress wages and cross hiring of the most talented technologists, plundering BILLIONS from the very people they claim to hold in the highest regard. Not only is that conniving, backstabbing behavior reprehensible and the epitome of "being evil" in a modern civilized society, they managed to come off looking like weak, bumbling cowards in the process. And if their attempts to suppress explicit evidence clearly detailing their feudalistic aspirations wasn't proof enough, they come back with a blatantly laughable settlement offer to make it official. Don't be fooled by the propaganda - actions always speak louder than words and Google has made clear where they stand. I've been working in investment banking technology for top tier firms for nearly a decade and can't recall any cases where trends of thousands of current and past employees laid a billion dollar class action lawsuit on their employers. And this in a sector which employs FAR more people and is regularly accused of working employees literally to death. You've got a lot of growing up to do, Google - and I can rightfully express that sentiment in the most condescending tone possible from the safety of my moral high ground.

sweeney2066 12y ago

25-35 hour work weeks certainly sounds like it should be the norm. I'm curious.. is it efficiency or focus or what that makes the less hours enough.