4 ms·

"The top of the Golden Gate Bridge is almost two inches wider at the top than the base because of the curvature of the Earth" http://datagenetics.com/blog/june

"The top of the Golden Gate Bridge is almost two inches wider at the top than the base because of the curvature of the Earth" http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/index.html http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/index.html

lutusp 12y ago
This is a fact "borrowed" from my Web site without attribution. Here's the original: http://arachnoid.com/carnival/index.html#Vertical http://arachnoid.com/carnival/index.html#Vertical In the linked article, we also find this graphic used to make another point -- horizon distance: http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/globe.png http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/globe.png Here's the original, from my Web site: http://arachnoid.com/carnival/resources/horizon_distance.png http://arachnoid.com/carnival/resources/horizon_distance.png Look familiar?
- sp332 12y ago
  It looks like this blog made their own version instead of copying yours. Since you can't own the fact, and they're not using your picture, they didn't take anything copyrighted or trademarked by you. Maybe you could argue that the stick-figure diagram is copyrightable, but it seems like a stretch.
- ctdonath 12y ago
  No it doesn't. Not at all, except insofar as that basic sketch is depicted in a zillion trigonometry textbooks and has been for well longer than you've been alive. The basic idea is pretty obvious. People have been computing "astounding facts" attributable to the Earth's curvature for thousands of years. Golden Gate Bridge is a pretty obvious choice for computing the tangible spread of two apparently parallel towers: WTC towers were too close for a dramatic spread, and other than GGB there isn't any other pair of towers so universally known (at least to an American audience) which are identical and far enough apart for a spreading of inches. If I think about it long enough, I'll probably recall seeing the same computation & example in trigonometry class decades ago. Just because you thought of it doesn't mean you're first - by a long shot. Oh, and your sketch is wrong. The two lines labeled "R" aren't the same length.
  - Jtsummers 12y ago
    > Oh, and your sketch is wrong. The two lines labeled "R" aren't the same length. lutusp's diagram is the arachnoid one. His labels are correct, it's the datagenetics one that has apparently incorrect labeling. The dashed red line is not R in length, but R + h, which is not clearly indicated though the apparent intent. The dashed line should stop at the circle and change color or something to indicate a second line segment. That said, you're correct. Ignoring the person another similar diagram is here: http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html
    - ctdonath 12y ago
      Mea culpa. Mixed 'em up in my bafflement of his assertion of ownership over a classic mathematical example.
- richcuteguy34 12y ago
  Yes, and also paradoxically the datagenetics article was published in June 2012, and the article you reference is dated March 2014. Next you are going to claim he stole your idea of a time machine. (Oh and your idea about calculus, and the English language).
  - JadeNB 12y ago
    I pointed out 6 hours after you did that his referenced article was dated 2 years after the article that he said copied it. You pre-stole my comment!
- mikeash 12y ago
  You "borrowed" a bunch of stuff in that diagram from Pythagoras and other ancient math folk, so I'd say turnabout is fair play there.
- dalke 12y ago
  It's familiar because it's a not uncommon comment. Well, except that most such comments refer to the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, which has a longer span than the Golden Gate. For examples: - Guinness Book of World Records (1973) made it with the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge - http://books.google.com/books?ei=93b7U_XoBuT5yQPkqYGIBQ&hl=sv&id=P28RAQAAMAAJ&dq=curvature&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=++curvature http://books.google.com/books?ei=93b7U_XoBuT5yQPkqYGIBQ&hl=s... - So did Henry Petroski in Engineers of Dreams: Great Bridge Builders and the Spanning of America: http://books.google.com/books?id=1J9qUcgoUvkC&pg=PT460&dq=curvature&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tnT7U-uuK4v9ywPl7YGIBQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=curvature&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=1J9qUcgoUvkC&pg=PT460&dq=cu... - and Popular Science in December 1995 http://books.google.com/books?id=7n5BWbJWMXMC&pg=PA102&dq=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ynj7U6iUE-r4yQPW_YDABQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22bottom%20because%20of%20the%20curvature%20of%20the%20Earth%22&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=7n5BWbJWMXMC&pg=PA102&dq=%2... It's not unique to the V-N Bridge. Here's a generic version in: - a NASA report from 1978, Skylab EREP Investigations Summary, says "For example, the support towers on each side of a long suspension bridge are several centimeters further apart at the top than at the bottom because of the curvature of the Earth" http://books.google.com/books?id=MEYgAAAAIAAJ&q=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&dq=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ynj7U6iUE-r4yQPW_YDABQ&redir_esc=y http://books.google.com/books?id=MEYgAAAAIAAJ&q=%22bottom+be... and two links for the same observation for the Humber Estuary Bridge in: - The Guinness Book of Records (1993) - http://books.google.com/books?id=RsNPAAAAYAAJ&q=humber+estuary+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&dq=humber+estuary+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6337U8f3OOf4yQPYvYCYBQ&redir_esc=y http://books.google.com/books?id=RsNPAAAAYAAJ&q=humber+estua... - Transport, Volumes 1-2 - http://books.google.com/books?ei=sX77U-DMN8bmyQOUr4KgBQ&id=XIm2AAAAIAAJ&dq=%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22 http://books.google.com/books?ei=sX77U-DMN8bmyQOUr4KgBQ&id=X... That said, for Golden Gate-specific comments, see: - Ghost Hunter's Guide to the San Francisco Bay Area (2005) ("The engineering is so perfect that the towers are actually five inches further apart at the top than the base to account for the curvature of the Earth.") http://books.google.com/books?id=oD52WFx2mykC&pg=PA71&dq=golden+gate+curvature&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iHT7U_OvCsa_ywOEtYCYBQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=curvature&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=oD52WFx2mykC&pg=PA71&dq=gol... - Practical Digital Wireless Signals (2010) ("As an example, for the Golden Gate Bridge at San Francisco the tops of the towers are further apart than the tower bases by about 9 cm due to the curvature of the Earth") - http://books.google.se/books?id=itG9Zwf7eHAC&pg=PA261&dq=%22golden+gate%22+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O3_7U6SfMITMyAPMuoDQCw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22golden%20gate%22%20%22curvature%20of%20the%20earth%22&f=false http://books.google.se/books?id=itG9Zwf7eHAC&pg=PA261&dq=%22... . Therefore, do you really believe that you are the originator of that fact, and due special attribution?

lutusp 12y ago

This is a fact "borrowed" from my Web site without attribution. Here's the original: http://arachnoid.com/carnival/index.html#Vertical http://arachnoid.com/carnival/index.html#Vertical In the linked article, we also find this graphic used to make another point -- horizon distance: http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/globe.png http://datagenetics.com/blog/june32012/globe.png Here's the original, from my Web site: http://arachnoid.com/carnival/resources/horizon_distance.png http://arachnoid.com/carnival/resources/horizon_distance.png Look familiar?

sp332 12y ago
It looks like this blog made their own version instead of copying yours. Since you can't own the fact, and they're not using your picture, they didn't take anything copyrighted or trademarked by you. Maybe you could argue that the stick-figure diagram is copyrightable, but it seems like a stretch.
ctdonath 12y ago
No it doesn't. Not at all, except insofar as that basic sketch is depicted in a zillion trigonometry textbooks and has been for well longer than you've been alive. The basic idea is pretty obvious. People have been computing "astounding facts" attributable to the Earth's curvature for thousands of years. Golden Gate Bridge is a pretty obvious choice for computing the tangible spread of two apparently parallel towers: WTC towers were too close for a dramatic spread, and other than GGB there isn't any other pair of towers so universally known (at least to an American audience) which are identical and far enough apart for a spreading of inches. If I think about it long enough, I'll probably recall seeing the same computation & example in trigonometry class decades ago. Just because you thought of it doesn't mean you're first - by a long shot. Oh, and your sketch is wrong. The two lines labeled "R" aren't the same length.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  > Oh, and your sketch is wrong. The two lines labeled "R" aren't the same length. lutusp's diagram is the arachnoid one. His labels are correct, it's the datagenetics one that has apparently incorrect labeling. The dashed red line is not R in length, but R + h, which is not clearly indicated though the apparent intent. The dashed line should stop at the circle and change color or something to indicate a second line segment. That said, you're correct. Ignoring the person another similar diagram is here: http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/atmos_refr/horizon.html
  - ctdonath 12y ago
    Mea culpa. Mixed 'em up in my bafflement of his assertion of ownership over a classic mathematical example.
richcuteguy34 12y ago
Yes, and also paradoxically the datagenetics article was published in June 2012, and the article you reference is dated March 2014. Next you are going to claim he stole your idea of a time machine. (Oh and your idea about calculus, and the English language).
- JadeNB 12y ago
  I pointed out 6 hours after you did that his referenced article was dated 2 years after the article that he said copied it. You pre-stole my comment!
mikeash 12y ago
You "borrowed" a bunch of stuff in that diagram from Pythagoras and other ancient math folk, so I'd say turnabout is fair play there.
dalke 12y ago
It's familiar because it's a not uncommon comment. Well, except that most such comments refer to the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, which has a longer span than the Golden Gate. For examples: - Guinness Book of World Records (1973) made it with the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge - http://books.google.com/books?ei=93b7U_XoBuT5yQPkqYGIBQ&hl=sv&id=P28RAQAAMAAJ&dq=curvature&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=++curvature http://books.google.com/books?ei=93b7U_XoBuT5yQPkqYGIBQ&hl=s... - So did Henry Petroski in Engineers of Dreams: Great Bridge Builders and the Spanning of America: http://books.google.com/books?id=1J9qUcgoUvkC&pg=PT460&dq=curvature&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tnT7U-uuK4v9ywPl7YGIBQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=curvature&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=1J9qUcgoUvkC&pg=PT460&dq=cu... - and Popular Science in December 1995 http://books.google.com/books?id=7n5BWbJWMXMC&pg=PA102&dq=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ynj7U6iUE-r4yQPW_YDABQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22bottom%20because%20of%20the%20curvature%20of%20the%20Earth%22&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=7n5BWbJWMXMC&pg=PA102&dq=%2... It's not unique to the V-N Bridge. Here's a generic version in: - a NASA report from 1978, Skylab EREP Investigations Summary, says "For example, the support towers on each side of a long suspension bridge are several centimeters further apart at the top than at the bottom because of the curvature of the Earth" http://books.google.com/books?id=MEYgAAAAIAAJ&q=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&dq=%22bottom+because+of+the+curvature+of+the+Earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ynj7U6iUE-r4yQPW_YDABQ&redir_esc=y http://books.google.com/books?id=MEYgAAAAIAAJ&q=%22bottom+be... and two links for the same observation for the Humber Estuary Bridge in: - The Guinness Book of Records (1993) - http://books.google.com/books?id=RsNPAAAAYAAJ&q=humber+estuary+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&dq=humber+estuary+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6337U8f3OOf4yQPYvYCYBQ&redir_esc=y http://books.google.com/books?id=RsNPAAAAYAAJ&q=humber+estua... - Transport, Volumes 1-2 - http://books.google.com/books?ei=sX77U-DMN8bmyQOUr4KgBQ&id=XIm2AAAAIAAJ&dq=%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22 http://books.google.com/books?ei=sX77U-DMN8bmyQOUr4KgBQ&id=X... That said, for Golden Gate-specific comments, see: - Ghost Hunter's Guide to the San Francisco Bay Area (2005) ("The engineering is so perfect that the towers are actually five inches further apart at the top than the base to account for the curvature of the Earth.") http://books.google.com/books?id=oD52WFx2mykC&pg=PA71&dq=golden+gate+curvature&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iHT7U_OvCsa_ywOEtYCYBQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=curvature&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=oD52WFx2mykC&pg=PA71&dq=gol... - Practical Digital Wireless Signals (2010) ("As an example, for the Golden Gate Bridge at San Francisco the tops of the towers are further apart than the tower bases by about 9 cm due to the curvature of the Earth") - http://books.google.se/books?id=itG9Zwf7eHAC&pg=PA261&dq=%22golden+gate%22+%22curvature+of+the+earth%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O3_7U6SfMITMyAPMuoDQCw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22golden%20gate%22%20%22curvature%20of%20the%20earth%22&f=false http://books.google.se/books?id=itG9Zwf7eHAC&pg=PA261&dq=%22... . Therefore, do you really believe that you are the originator of that fact, and due special attribution?