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What do you think would be an appropriate sentence for a crime like this? Society's most vulnerable betrayed by society's most trusted.

by phpnode 12y ago

patrickg 12y ago
It's not really what I think would be appropriate, it's just a comparison of the length of sentences, which is totally different across legislatures. I've seen a TV report about Indonesia, where possessing drugs (if I understand it correctly) has extremley high sentences, comparable to murder here in Germany.
Karunamon 12y ago
As someone who's fundamentally opposed to prison for white collar crimes like this, I could suggest: * The felony record he's going to have for the rest of his life * Massive monetary fine, to be automatically garnished from (and only payable by) any wages earned, leaving him with the equivalent of the local minimum wage until the fine is paid. * Permanent banishment from any kind of justice system work, even as far as being a janitor in an administration building. * Community service, on the order of weeks/months of time for each person who was unjustly sentenced.
- Bud 12y ago
  * Felony record? He's an older, privileged white male. The only substantive effect on him will be loss of voting privileges. * Only payable by wages earned? He's already earned a lifetime's worth of money. Why are you opposed to taking the money from his bank accounts, his house, and his net worth? Seems to me you're trying hard to put up a shield for the wealthy. * Cynical to suggest permanent "banishment" from the justice system. I doubt there was much danger of him being appointed a judge again. So. Why are you opposed to prison for white-collar crimes?
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    Background figures into a lot more than employment and voting, for one. I hadn't considered his current financial situation - I'd be perfectly okay with taking his net worth for damages. In case it wasn't blatantly fucking obvious, this was a list of ideas, non an exhaustive compendium of possible penalties! Cynical? It's an assurance that he never ends up in a position to do this again. I'm opposed to prison for white-collar crimes because I see prison as a place for segregation from society when there is no other option; specifically for violent and dangerous criminals. I don't see how locking this guy up serves any kind of justice other than the poetic type.
- phpnode 12y ago
  Just wow.
- spacemanmatt 12y ago
  There are murderers I would release sooner than this piece of social cancer.
- steego 12y ago
  > As someone who's fundamentally opposed to prison for white collar crimes: I'm curious. What constitutes a white collar crime in your opinion? Is it fundamentally non-violent, or is it really just a class distinction? Would you suggest prison time for armed robbery if the armed robber never hurt anybody over someone who embezzled money? What about kidnapping children but never physically hurting them? What about selling children to buyers who don't physically abuse them? Aren't those crimes very similar to selling children to a for-profit prison system? I'm really curious what you qualify as a white collar crime and why you don't think it deserves the same level of justice as blue collar crimes.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    In case you're asking this out of curiosity and not rhetorically (which your last sentence makes me think it's the latter..) I'd say prison should exclude fundamentally non-violent crimes on the part of the person taking the action. People who have to be isolated from society, not because they've done something that violates some law, but because they've proven that they are a clear and present danger to others. Robbers, rapists, murderers, and so on. I say this because prison has incredibly deleterious effects on the human psyche. As long as our system is about punishment rather than reform, I cannot in good faith condemn someone to that fate unless there is literally no other option to keep them from harming further. This guy is both older and well off. There are ways to obtain restitution that don't involve having him spend years among violent criminals and ending up more damaged than when he went in.
- tehwebguy 12y ago
  You got downvoted a lot but no one actually touched on the important issues: This is not a white collar crime. The judge may not be the person physically handcuffing someone, but by improperly sentencing people to any kind of imprisonment he is directing violence at them. Someone is on the other side of the bars / glass / building and will use violence to keep the prisoner there if necessary.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Agreed. If you or I were to detain someone against their will for an extended time, its called 'kidnapping' and is a capital crime in some states. Definitely imprisonment is a violent act.

What do you think would be an appropriate sentence for a crime like this? Society's most vulnerable betrayed by society's most trusted.

by phpnode 12y ago

What do you think would be an appropriate sentence for a crime like this? Society's most vulnerable betrayed by society's most trusted.

patrickg 12y ago

It's not really what I think would be appropriate, it's just a comparison of the length of sentences, which is totally different across legislatures. I've seen a TV report about Indonesia, where possessing drugs (if I understand it correctly) has extremley high sentences, comparable to murder here in Germany.

Karunamon 12y ago

As someone who's fundamentally opposed to prison for white collar crimes like this, I could suggest: * The felony record he's going to have for the rest of his life * Massive monetary fine, to be automatically garnished from (and only payable by) any wages earned, leaving him with the equivalent of the local minimum wage until the fine is paid. * Permanent banishment from any kind of justice system work, even as far as being a janitor in an administration building. * Community service, on the order of weeks/months of time for each person who was unjustly sentenced.

Bud 12y ago
* Felony record? He's an older, privileged white male. The only substantive effect on him will be loss of voting privileges. * Only payable by wages earned? He's already earned a lifetime's worth of money. Why are you opposed to taking the money from his bank accounts, his house, and his net worth? Seems to me you're trying hard to put up a shield for the wealthy. * Cynical to suggest permanent "banishment" from the justice system. I doubt there was much danger of him being appointed a judge again. So. Why are you opposed to prison for white-collar crimes?
- Karunamon 12y ago
  Background figures into a lot more than employment and voting, for one. I hadn't considered his current financial situation - I'd be perfectly okay with taking his net worth for damages. In case it wasn't blatantly fucking obvious, this was a list of ideas, non an exhaustive compendium of possible penalties! Cynical? It's an assurance that he never ends up in a position to do this again. I'm opposed to prison for white-collar crimes because I see prison as a place for segregation from society when there is no other option; specifically for violent and dangerous criminals. I don't see how locking this guy up serves any kind of justice other than the poetic type.
phpnode 12y ago
Just wow.
spacemanmatt 12y ago
There are murderers I would release sooner than this piece of social cancer.
steego 12y ago
> As someone who's fundamentally opposed to prison for white collar crimes: I'm curious. What constitutes a white collar crime in your opinion? Is it fundamentally non-violent, or is it really just a class distinction? Would you suggest prison time for armed robbery if the armed robber never hurt anybody over someone who embezzled money? What about kidnapping children but never physically hurting them? What about selling children to buyers who don't physically abuse them? Aren't those crimes very similar to selling children to a for-profit prison system? I'm really curious what you qualify as a white collar crime and why you don't think it deserves the same level of justice as blue collar crimes.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  In case you're asking this out of curiosity and not rhetorically (which your last sentence makes me think it's the latter..) I'd say prison should exclude fundamentally non-violent crimes on the part of the person taking the action. People who have to be isolated from society, not because they've done something that violates some law, but because they've proven that they are a clear and present danger to others. Robbers, rapists, murderers, and so on. I say this because prison has incredibly deleterious effects on the human psyche. As long as our system is about punishment rather than reform, I cannot in good faith condemn someone to that fate unless there is literally no other option to keep them from harming further. This guy is both older and well off. There are ways to obtain restitution that don't involve having him spend years among violent criminals and ending up more damaged than when he went in.
tehwebguy 12y ago
You got downvoted a lot but no one actually touched on the important issues: This is not a white collar crime. The judge may not be the person physically handcuffing someone, but by improperly sentencing people to any kind of imprisonment he is directing violence at them. Someone is on the other side of the bars / glass / building and will use violence to keep the prisoner there if necessary.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Agreed. If you or I were to detain someone against their will for an extended time, its called 'kidnapping' and is a capital crime in some states. Definitely imprisonment is a violent act.