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There must be monentary incentives somewhere else too, otherwise the US wouldn't lead the world on the list of imprisoned population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wi

There must be monentary incentives somewhere else too, otherwise the US wouldn't lead the world on the list of imprisoned population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat... (juveniles not in the list)

mcv 12y ago
There's certainly more monetary incentives. Some private prisons have an agreement with a state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates. So even if crime were to stop, the state would be legally requires to fill up those prisons. So there's very little incentive to prevent crime, and a lot to lock people up for fairly minor offenses (like owning a small amount of pot). Police departments are also often rewarded based on how many people they get locked up, rather than how much they reduce crime. So there's little incentive to pursue hard-to-prove crimes (like rape) and lots of incentive to lock people up for minor but easy to prove charges, or even charges for which it's easy to fake evidence.
- spacefight 12y ago
  "a state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates." Wow, I'm shocked. Any examples for this?
  - bostik 12y ago
    http://www.salon.com/2014/04/15/america_on_lockdown_why_the_private_prison_industry_is_exploding_partner/ http://www.salon.com/2014/04/15/america_on_lockdown_why_the_... And to pick a choice quote from the text: Arizona is one of four states (along with Virginia, Oklahoma and Louisiana) in which state governments are bound to contracts guaranteeing a 95%-100% occupancy in facilities leased by private prisons. EDIT: typofix
- admax88q 12y ago
  "state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates." That does not sound true at all. Source?
  - gamerdonkey 12y ago
    Yeah, I thought the post you replied to was confusing profit guarantees, but apparently not. http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/prison-populations-private-profits/18248-prison-populations-private-profits http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/prison-populations... http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/sites/default/files/Criminal-Lockup%20Quota-Report.pdf http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/sites/default/files/Crimi...
  - steveax 12y ago
    It's apparently common for CCA (and other private prison operators) to attempt to get this clause in contracts. In some cases, they do: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/19/are-governments-incentivizing-longer-prison-terms/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/19/ar...
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    It isn't untrue but they are mischaracterizing it. The current agreements state that a certain % of the prison will be occupied and the state will pay $x/prisoner/day. Now what you have to consider is two things; first "what happens if the % isn't met?" simply put the state pays for "virtual prisoners" between the actual % and the agreed upon % (e.g. 100 non-existent prisoners will be paid for as if they existed). So it isn't like the state is going to go roaming the streets and picking up random people for littering just to meet the % just because the contract says to. It still ultimately saves the state money to be below capacity as they can sit right at the agreed upon lower % indefinitely (plus other costs for prisoners are still met by the state: like transportation, medical, and so on). Do I think private prisons try to promote laws which lock more people up? Yes, absolutely I do. But I don't think the % minimums within private prison contracts are a massive problem, and are only there to give both the state and the private prison more consistent financial obligations. It actually /looks/ worse than it is in this specific case. However the private prison industry is a blight on the US and the US legal system is pretty well broken at this stage (e.g. innocent people pleading guilty because they cannot get real representation and it would bankrupt them, plea deals which are immoral, prisoners testifying against each other for reduced sentences (which incentivise lying, politics playing too large a role, money playing too large a role, mass corruption at every stage, etc).
- bostik 12y ago
  Or to put it in another way: If you allow perverse incentives in the justice system, you get perverted justice.
qeorge 12y ago
Off the top of my head: - prisons create high paying jobs in rural areas - private prison companies like Vanguard are quite lucrative (and Vanguard just happens to have former Vice Pres. Cheney as a major investor) - prison labor is drastically cheaper than minimum wage There's more. Here's a decent article on the topic from Vice: http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-in...

mcv 12y ago

There's certainly more monetary incentives. Some private prisons have an agreement with a state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates. So even if crime were to stop, the state would be legally requires to fill up those prisons. So there's very little incentive to prevent crime, and a lot to lock people up for fairly minor offenses (like owning a small amount of pot). Police departments are also often rewarded based on how many people they get locked up, rather than how much they reduce crime. So there's little incentive to pursue hard-to-prove crimes (like rape) and lots of incentive to lock people up for minor but easy to prove charges, or even charges for which it's easy to fake evidence.

spacefight 12y ago
"a state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates." Wow, I'm shocked. Any examples for this?
- bostik 12y ago
  http://www.salon.com/2014/04/15/america_on_lockdown_why_the_private_prison_industry_is_exploding_partner/ http://www.salon.com/2014/04/15/america_on_lockdown_why_the_... And to pick a choice quote from the text: Arizona is one of four states (along with Virginia, Oklahoma and Louisiana) in which state governments are bound to contracts guaranteeing a 95%-100% occupancy in facilities leased by private prisons. EDIT: typofix
admax88q 12y ago
"state where the state guarantees a certain numberof inmates." That does not sound true at all. Source?
- gamerdonkey 12y ago
  Yeah, I thought the post you replied to was confusing profit guarantees, but apparently not. http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/prison-populations-private-profits/18248-prison-populations-private-profits http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/prison-populations... http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/sites/default/files/Criminal-Lockup%20Quota-Report.pdf http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/sites/default/files/Crimi...
- steveax 12y ago
  It's apparently common for CCA (and other private prison operators) to attempt to get this clause in contracts. In some cases, they do: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/19/are-governments-incentivizing-longer-prison-terms/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/19/ar...
- Someone1234 12y ago
  It isn't untrue but they are mischaracterizing it. The current agreements state that a certain % of the prison will be occupied and the state will pay $x/prisoner/day. Now what you have to consider is two things; first "what happens if the % isn't met?" simply put the state pays for "virtual prisoners" between the actual % and the agreed upon % (e.g. 100 non-existent prisoners will be paid for as if they existed). So it isn't like the state is going to go roaming the streets and picking up random people for littering just to meet the % just because the contract says to. It still ultimately saves the state money to be below capacity as they can sit right at the agreed upon lower % indefinitely (plus other costs for prisoners are still met by the state: like transportation, medical, and so on). Do I think private prisons try to promote laws which lock more people up? Yes, absolutely I do. But I don't think the % minimums within private prison contracts are a massive problem, and are only there to give both the state and the private prison more consistent financial obligations. It actually /looks/ worse than it is in this specific case. However the private prison industry is a blight on the US and the US legal system is pretty well broken at this stage (e.g. innocent people pleading guilty because they cannot get real representation and it would bankrupt them, plea deals which are immoral, prisoners testifying against each other for reduced sentences (which incentivise lying, politics playing too large a role, money playing too large a role, mass corruption at every stage, etc).
bostik 12y ago
Or to put it in another way: If you allow perverse incentives in the justice system, you get perverted justice.

qeorge 12y ago

Off the top of my head: - prisons create high paying jobs in rural areas - private prison companies like Vanguard are quite lucrative (and Vanguard just happens to have former Vice Pres. Cheney as a major investor) - prison labor is drastically cheaper than minimum wage There's more. Here's a decent article on the topic from Vice: http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex http://www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-in...