4 ms·

Lots of people are posting highlighting how pointless airport security is given the ease with which a terrorist can bypass it by e.g. blowing himself up in the

by corford 12y ago

Lots of people are posting highlighting how pointless airport security is given the ease with which a terrorist can bypass it by e.g. blowing himself up in the security line, targeting buses or shopping malls, making weapons from stuff bought "air side" etc. As this hasn't been happening (despite how easy it would be for a terrorist to do), the only logical conclusion I draw is that the entire terrorist threat is so unbelievably overblown it doesn't warrant even thinking about when it comes to evaluating personal safety. I mean, how can it not be, given how easy it would be for a terrorist to just stroll in to an airport departures hall with a jacket bomb and detonate himself yet the closest we've seen to this is one lunatic failing to ignite some powder in his shoes and another idiot burning his crotch. I think the real answer is that you can probably count the number of truly dangerous terrorists in the world on two hands. The rest of the current crop are nothing more than brainwashed amateurs who spend their time wreaking havoc and misery in isolated parts of the world that no normal person would ever have occasion to set foot in. This article from the FT makes a similar point: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ee2a8412-2923-11e4-9d5d-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3B1XsaAw5 http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ee2a8412-2923-11e4-9d5d-00144... If I was a black man in the US I'd be much more afraid of looking at a cop the wrong way than being caught up in a terrorist outrage.

clarkmoody 12y ago
I completely agree with your first two paragraphs, but you lost me on the second half of your comment. The TSA's response to attempted attacks has been to clamp down on the rest of us after the fact: shoes off, no liquids. This tells us that the intelligence gathering effort was not reflected in the airport security measures. They lock down those attack vectors to prevent "me too" attacks, but there haven't been any. Yet, the security gymnastics routine has not gotten lighter for the average traveler. Where I disagree: > no normal person would ever have occasion to set foot in You just dismissed a chunk of humanity as non-"normal" along with their homeland. Yes, Westerners have rare occasion to visit some of the places where terrorists breed and train. But the world contains more than Westerners, doesn't it? > If I was a black man in the US I'd be much more afraid of looking at a cop the wrong way than being caught up in a terrorist outrage. You are making the same mistake we're talking about with airport security: you are blowing a few highly-publicized events way out of proportion. Here[1] is some 2011 data from the FBI highlighting homicide victim/offender race & sex. Compare that to this report[2] from the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing arrest-related deaths from 2003-2009. (I know different years, etc, sorry) From that data, it looks like blacks kill way more blacks (and whites kill more whites) than cops killing either race. [1]: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6 http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/c... [2]: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf
- corford 12y ago
  Blacks, whites or cops killing blacks - whatever it is, it's more than terrorists killing blacks. I could have worded my other paragraph slightly better - what I meant was no western person (since we're talking about potential for terrorist attacks on westerners) would normally find themselves in the mountains of bora bora or the war zones of syria/iraq. The only western people outside of UN, military or diplomatic personnel you are likely to find in these parts are radical young men from home who are living out a jihad fantasy.
- gamerdonkey 12y ago
  Unfortunately, studies have found that police homicides are under-reported to the FBI's national database. http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794/ferguson-turns-lens-on-police-involved-killings-but-some-facts-are-few http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794/ferguson-turns-lens-...
mncolinlee 12y ago
Correction: You can estimate the number of truly dangerous terrorists targeting the US easily. Israel and Russia seem to attract more and they tend to hit easy targets that are more difficult to secure than airports.
- corford 12y ago
  My conclusion: providing you don't share a land border with the area you are upsetting (Chechnya, Palestine), most 'would be' terrorists lack the means/skill/desire to make a trip to your homeland to perform an atrocity.
epochwolf 12y ago
> As this hasn't been happening I believe this is incorrect. In Russia, two terrorists set off a bomb outside the secure area in the arrival hall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domodedovo_International_Airport_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domodedovo_International_Airpor...
- corford 12y ago
  Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I think my point still stands though. I'd be more inclined to believe there's a serious terrorist problem if something like that was happening once or twice a year. As it stands, if you live in the US at least, it seems your child has a greater chance of being gunned down by a classmate at school than blown up by a terrorist.
knowaveragejoe 12y ago
Schneier makes some good points with regards to why there aren't more terrorist attacks: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/05/why_arent_there.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/05/why_arent_the...
lallysingh 12y ago
If you're anyone in the US, be more worried about heart disease and driving defensively.
tinalumfoil 12y ago
Yet the TSA manages to find weapons all the time. On their blog [0], over the last 4 weeks, they claim to have confiscated 156 firearms from security checks. Even if 99% forgot they were carrying a weapon and accidentally brought it on the plane that's still 1-2 planes with a malicious guy carrying a gun every month. [0] http://blog.tsa.gov/ http://blog.tsa.gov/
- mentat 12y ago
  And that's the danger of 2 9s thinking. It's really probably 99.999% are forgotten and the TSA hasn't found one malicious one.

by corford 12y ago

clarkmoody 12y ago

I completely agree with your first two paragraphs, but you lost me on the second half of your comment. The TSA's response to attempted attacks has been to clamp down on the rest of us after the fact: shoes off, no liquids. This tells us that the intelligence gathering effort was not reflected in the airport security measures. They lock down those attack vectors to prevent "me too" attacks, but there haven't been any. Yet, the security gymnastics routine has not gotten lighter for the average traveler. Where I disagree: > no normal person would ever have occasion to set foot in You just dismissed a chunk of humanity as non-"normal" along with their homeland. Yes, Westerners have rare occasion to visit some of the places where terrorists breed and train. But the world contains more than Westerners, doesn't it? > If I was a black man in the US I'd be much more afraid of looking at a cop the wrong way than being caught up in a terrorist outrage. You are making the same mistake we're talking about with airport security: you are blowing a few highly-publicized events way out of proportion. Here[1] is some 2011 data from the FBI highlighting homicide victim/offender race & sex. Compare that to this report[2] from the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing arrest-related deaths from 2003-2009. (I know different years, etc, sorry) From that data, it looks like blacks kill way more blacks (and whites kill more whites) than cops killing either race. [1]: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6 http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/c... [2]: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf

corford 12y ago
Blacks, whites or cops killing blacks - whatever it is, it's more than terrorists killing blacks. I could have worded my other paragraph slightly better - what I meant was no western person (since we're talking about potential for terrorist attacks on westerners) would normally find themselves in the mountains of bora bora or the war zones of syria/iraq. The only western people outside of UN, military or diplomatic personnel you are likely to find in these parts are radical young men from home who are living out a jihad fantasy.
gamerdonkey 12y ago
Unfortunately, studies have found that police homicides are under-reported to the FBI's national database. http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794/ferguson-turns-lens-on-police-involved-killings-but-some-facts-are-few http://www.npr.org/2014/08/21/342228794/ferguson-turns-lens-...

mncolinlee 12y ago

Correction: You can estimate the number of truly dangerous terrorists targeting the US easily. Israel and Russia seem to attract more and they tend to hit easy targets that are more difficult to secure than airports.

corford 12y ago
My conclusion: providing you don't share a land border with the area you are upsetting (Chechnya, Palestine), most 'would be' terrorists lack the means/skill/desire to make a trip to your homeland to perform an atrocity.

epochwolf 12y ago

> As this hasn't been happening I believe this is incorrect. In Russia, two terrorists set off a bomb outside the secure area in the arrival hall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domodedovo_International_Airport_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domodedovo_International_Airpor...

corford 12y ago
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I think my point still stands though. I'd be more inclined to believe there's a serious terrorist problem if something like that was happening once or twice a year. As it stands, if you live in the US at least, it seems your child has a greater chance of being gunned down by a classmate at school than blown up by a terrorist.

knowaveragejoe 12y ago

Schneier makes some good points with regards to why there aren't more terrorist attacks: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/05/why_arent_there.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/05/why_arent_the...

lallysingh 12y ago

If you're anyone in the US, be more worried about heart disease and driving defensively.

tinalumfoil 12y ago

Yet the TSA manages to find weapons all the time. On their blog [0], over the last 4 weeks, they claim to have confiscated 156 firearms from security checks. Even if 99% forgot they were carrying a weapon and accidentally brought it on the plane that's still 1-2 planes with a malicious guy carrying a gun every month. [0] http://blog.tsa.gov/ http://blog.tsa.gov/

mentat 12y ago
And that's the danger of 2 9s thinking. It's really probably 99.999% are forgotten and the TSA hasn't found one malicious one.