5 ms·

Just to kick off the discussion here, if you are a developer who is building on a platform other than .NET, I would love to know why. Tell me anything. I'm an

Just to kick off the discussion here, if you are a developer who is building on a platform other than .NET, I would love to know why. Tell me anything. I'm an entrepreneur on loan to MSFT and very much trying to build our outreach to the non-MSFT developer crowd, and listen to and learn about their needs so we can build better products.

MichaelApproved 17y ago
I'm an MSFT coder and love the mission you're on. We need more coders working with .net or the language will die off.
- BrandonWatson 17y ago
  It drives me nuts that I have to download Eclipse to write Python code (instead of using Visual Studio). I am on a mission, and my execs have made it clear to me that they are willing to invest in what I am doing, which is awesome. Phase one, start building some trust with the community, and that starts with listening to them. Since I am in the product group (and not our evangelism group), I have direct product and strategy responsibilty. It's a cool role, and I am looking forward to spending more time doing what I love, which is working with devs and hopefully finding ways to make them more productive.
  - mikeryan 17y ago
    But you don't have to download Eclipse to write Python code. That's one of the things about open-source style projects. (granted that PyDev with Eclipse is the number one choice) But look at this list http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584 Many of the top ten are just simple text editors (maybe with dedicated plugins) This flexibility of choice is a huge distinction of most non-MS products. Even if you choose Eclipse, it makes for a single dedicated IDE for most open source languages and platforms out there. When I swtiched from Java to RoR dev I simply loaded the RadRails plugin (since switch to TextMate) and instantly knew my way around the IDE. Even for a company the size of Microsoft, building in that much support for alternatives will likely never match Eclipse in the IDE space.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    Isn't there a Python.net or something? Is your gripe that Python should be supported by Visual Studio? Why did nobody write a Python plugin for VS yet? I suppose if you believe in it, you could do it in your spare time, or the 20% time (I know that's Google, but surely Microsoft has copied that model?). I think a lot of people who use Python don't even like "fat" IDEs like VS, though.
    - BrandonWatson 17y ago
      Yes, we have IronPython (and IronRuby), and no it's not supported in VS. Don't get me started... =)
Tichy 17y ago
I don't use .NET because it would tie me to a proprietary platform that costs money and is not much fun to use. Why would I do that, if suitable free alternatives are available?
req2 17y ago
My memory may have soured the process, but I'll mention the experience I had when I tried Visual C# Express. I opted for local documentation, but everything returned 'resource not found'. In program online documentation, as I recall, led to a lot of 404s or redirects. I tried starting a demo project using SQLite, and spent more time finding the right tab with the right synonym for 'dependency' to add the SQLite plugin's directory. Trial and error wasn't terribly informative when doing that. I decide to give the website another chance, and download some sample program packs; this involved navigating past the incorrect pages Express initially pointed me to, and then downloading a zip containing files Express didn't want to open without converting. It wasn't a fun process, and the projects I opened were written by monkeys, or interns, or interning monkeys, because the method names were inconsistently named and inconsistently spelled. I went back to the less effortful Django and Rails tutorials, which introduce everything you need, and tell you enough to know where to look when you want to try a plugin.

MichaelApproved 17y ago

I'm an MSFT coder and love the mission you're on. We need more coders working with .net or the language will die off.

BrandonWatson 17y ago
It drives me nuts that I have to download Eclipse to write Python code (instead of using Visual Studio). I am on a mission, and my execs have made it clear to me that they are willing to invest in what I am doing, which is awesome. Phase one, start building some trust with the community, and that starts with listening to them. Since I am in the product group (and not our evangelism group), I have direct product and strategy responsibilty. It's a cool role, and I am looking forward to spending more time doing what I love, which is working with devs and hopefully finding ways to make them more productive.
- mikeryan 17y ago
  But you don't have to download Eclipse to write Python code. That's one of the things about open-source style projects. (granted that PyDev with Eclipse is the number one choice) But look at this list http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584 Many of the top ten are just simple text editors (maybe with dedicated plugins) This flexibility of choice is a huge distinction of most non-MS products. Even if you choose Eclipse, it makes for a single dedicated IDE for most open source languages and platforms out there. When I swtiched from Java to RoR dev I simply loaded the RadRails plugin (since switch to TextMate) and instantly knew my way around the IDE. Even for a company the size of Microsoft, building in that much support for alternatives will likely never match Eclipse in the IDE space.
- Tichy 17y ago
  Isn't there a Python.net or something? Is your gripe that Python should be supported by Visual Studio? Why did nobody write a Python plugin for VS yet? I suppose if you believe in it, you could do it in your spare time, or the 20% time (I know that's Google, but surely Microsoft has copied that model?). I think a lot of people who use Python don't even like "fat" IDEs like VS, though.
  - BrandonWatson 17y ago
    Yes, we have IronPython (and IronRuby), and no it's not supported in VS. Don't get me started... =)

Tichy 17y ago

I don't use .NET because it would tie me to a proprietary platform that costs money and is not much fun to use. Why would I do that, if suitable free alternatives are available?

req2 17y ago

My memory may have soured the process, but I'll mention the experience I had when I tried Visual C# Express. I opted for local documentation, but everything returned 'resource not found'. In program online documentation, as I recall, led to a lot of 404s or redirects. I tried starting a demo project using SQLite, and spent more time finding the right tab with the right synonym for 'dependency' to add the SQLite plugin's directory. Trial and error wasn't terribly informative when doing that. I decide to give the website another chance, and download some sample program packs; this involved navigating past the incorrect pages Express initially pointed me to, and then downloading a zip containing files Express didn't want to open without converting. It wasn't a fun process, and the projects I opened were written by monkeys, or interns, or interning monkeys, because the method names were inconsistently named and inconsistently spelled. I went back to the less effortful Django and Rails tutorials, which introduce everything you need, and tell you enough to know where to look when you want to try a plugin.