8 ms·

Japanese companies seek international graduates

46 points by ylem 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
siliconc0w 12y ago
Wow, companies are actually willing to invest in training graduates? Those crazy japanese.
- ronnier 12y ago
  Just speaking from my own observations here, I don't think this is unheard of in the US. For example I work for Amazon and we hire a lot of college graduates, usually after completing a paid internship. These new hires are not expected to come in with any experience outside of their university work. From what I can tell, all the other big players do the same.
  - hkmurakami 12y ago
    Siemens now has an apprenticeship system, and I think that is similar to the mentality that the Japanese companies traditionally have had. That being said, it is a German company, and I do sincerely think that the Germans and Japanese have quite a few similarities when it comes to the way they work, the focus on quality, etc.
  - sam_bwut 12y ago
    Same - I'm at a large employer, 4 month grad training- 2 months general tech, 1 month semi company specific + a couple of group projects.
  - potatolicious 12y ago
    I think they're talking about something at another level of scale and formality. I worked for Amazon too, but the "training" was more "toss you into the deep end and help as needed". Don't get me wrong, I think trial by fire is largely a fine way of training, but it is very different. Google has an actual, formalized Noogler course that you take when you first get there. This is closer to the model of training that exists at the large Asian megacorps - but think formalized, time-off, dedicated training courses rather than the ad hoc "tap your team lead on the shoulder when you need help" model of the modern American tech industry.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  If you plan to keep them for life, training them does make plenty sense. Of course lifetime employment no longer makes any sense.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  The company I worked for in Japan (enormous engineering company) gave us a 6 month training period before sending us to our assigned departments (I was sent to their research lab arm). Training continued periodically afterwards with these short 2-3 day boot camp sort of things that you could go to, with the agreement of your boss. That being said, at least in my case, all this training was meant to bring new grads who were clueless in certain areas (ex: in corporate etiquette) up to a basic standard. It wasn't meant to make you excel at anything.
- rurounijones 12y ago
  Your definition of "training" and the "training"[1] new Japanese employees receive are almost certainly WILDLY different. [1] e.g. "Exchanging business cards 101"
bfwi 12y ago
The "etiquette" of these companies sounds absolutely soul-crushing.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  As a westerner who had his soul crushed once by the machine there, I can attest. That being said, I do think that it's not as bad if you look foreign (esp if you're white). You also need to be able to ignore the norms even if you are aware of them. If you start worrying about complying with the norms that you know are there but aren't quite sure where the boundaries are (like I did), then your soul is guaranteed to be crushed.
  - intruder 12y ago
    As someone looking for a job here right now and being quite norm conforming, this terrifies me. I'll try to find a foreign company.
    - euske 12y ago
      Nah. Many small firms and tech-oriented startups are much more casual and often liberal too, so no worry. I (as a native Japanese) work for a small tech company in Tokyo. The workplace is pretty friendly and negotiable. I bike to my work and have a power nap every day. I can have weeklong vacations a few times a year. The pay is not as great as the big guys, but generally I consider it a good life. Good luck with job searching!
- kyllo 12y ago
  Speaking as someone who was recruited out of university into the management training program of a Korean conglomerate, the life these kids are headed for is indeed soul-crushing. Common activities will include trying to stay awake during two-hour meetings with no agenda, surfing the internet while pretending to work, but still having to stay for at least 10 hours, and mandatory evening drinking/karaoke parties with the boss. And consuming a fuckton of instant coffee and cigarettes.
deciplex 12y ago
I wonder what sort of work most of them are doing? The article doesn't really go into specifics. For software development, at least, the job market seems really shallow, and you pay the price literally, and in what sort of work you can do as well. Compare the job market in e.g. Seattle with 1/10th the population, yet somehow there is more to do. Tokyo is nice, but there is never going to be a thriving tech community here if the pay is terrible and projects pointless and boring. For my part, I will probably leave soon :-( e: In many cases, the graduates won't actually know what they'll be doing until after they're hired. So maybe that's why there isn't a breakdown by field of work.
- intruder 12y ago
  Did you find something here? It's really a pity with Japan, the country is amazing but the work culture here is terrible. What good is all the nice stuff when you're slaving away half your life?
  - deciplex 12y ago
    Yes, I've been a software developer here for a number of years. You can find something, but you will be a lot more limited in the kind of work you can do, and the salary you can demand. Over the long term this can have pretty serious career consequences. If you just want to come here for a few years as a semi-temporary thing, you'll do fine. But, if you are thinking about putting down roots here, well, good luck :-)
triton3156 12y ago
Even large Japanese companies already started to think the overly standardized screening process didn't fit the current world of internationalization. So it unlikely happen that just wading a blue shirt or carrying a nylon bag cause your interview failure.

46 points by ylem 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

siliconc0w 12y ago

Wow, companies are actually willing to invest in training graduates? Those crazy japanese.

ronnier 12y ago
Just speaking from my own observations here, I don't think this is unheard of in the US. For example I work for Amazon and we hire a lot of college graduates, usually after completing a paid internship. These new hires are not expected to come in with any experience outside of their university work. From what I can tell, all the other big players do the same.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Siemens now has an apprenticeship system, and I think that is similar to the mentality that the Japanese companies traditionally have had. That being said, it is a German company, and I do sincerely think that the Germans and Japanese have quite a few similarities when it comes to the way they work, the focus on quality, etc.
- sam_bwut 12y ago
  Same - I'm at a large employer, 4 month grad training- 2 months general tech, 1 month semi company specific + a couple of group projects.
- potatolicious 12y ago
  I think they're talking about something at another level of scale and formality. I worked for Amazon too, but the "training" was more "toss you into the deep end and help as needed". Don't get me wrong, I think trial by fire is largely a fine way of training, but it is very different. Google has an actual, formalized Noogler course that you take when you first get there. This is closer to the model of training that exists at the large Asian megacorps - but think formalized, time-off, dedicated training courses rather than the ad hoc "tap your team lead on the shoulder when you need help" model of the modern American tech industry.
tomjen3 12y ago
If you plan to keep them for life, training them does make plenty sense. Of course lifetime employment no longer makes any sense.
hkmurakami 12y ago
The company I worked for in Japan (enormous engineering company) gave us a 6 month training period before sending us to our assigned departments (I was sent to their research lab arm). Training continued periodically afterwards with these short 2-3 day boot camp sort of things that you could go to, with the agreement of your boss. That being said, at least in my case, all this training was meant to bring new grads who were clueless in certain areas (ex: in corporate etiquette) up to a basic standard. It wasn't meant to make you excel at anything.
rurounijones 12y ago
Your definition of "training" and the "training"[1] new Japanese employees receive are almost certainly WILDLY different. [1] e.g. "Exchanging business cards 101"

bfwi 12y ago

The "etiquette" of these companies sounds absolutely soul-crushing.

hkmurakami 12y ago
As a westerner who had his soul crushed once by the machine there, I can attest. That being said, I do think that it's not as bad if you look foreign (esp if you're white). You also need to be able to ignore the norms even if you are aware of them. If you start worrying about complying with the norms that you know are there but aren't quite sure where the boundaries are (like I did), then your soul is guaranteed to be crushed.
- intruder 12y ago
  As someone looking for a job here right now and being quite norm conforming, this terrifies me. I'll try to find a foreign company.
  - euske 12y ago
    Nah. Many small firms and tech-oriented startups are much more casual and often liberal too, so no worry. I (as a native Japanese) work for a small tech company in Tokyo. The workplace is pretty friendly and negotiable. I bike to my work and have a power nap every day. I can have weeklong vacations a few times a year. The pay is not as great as the big guys, but generally I consider it a good life. Good luck with job searching!
kyllo 12y ago
Speaking as someone who was recruited out of university into the management training program of a Korean conglomerate, the life these kids are headed for is indeed soul-crushing. Common activities will include trying to stay awake during two-hour meetings with no agenda, surfing the internet while pretending to work, but still having to stay for at least 10 hours, and mandatory evening drinking/karaoke parties with the boss. And consuming a fuckton of instant coffee and cigarettes.

deciplex 12y ago

I wonder what sort of work most of them are doing? The article doesn't really go into specifics. For software development, at least, the job market seems really shallow, and you pay the price literally, and in what sort of work you can do as well. Compare the job market in e.g. Seattle with 1/10th the population, yet somehow there is more to do. Tokyo is nice, but there is never going to be a thriving tech community here if the pay is terrible and projects pointless and boring. For my part, I will probably leave soon :-( e: In many cases, the graduates won't actually know what they'll be doing until after they're hired. So maybe that's why there isn't a breakdown by field of work.

intruder 12y ago
Did you find something here? It's really a pity with Japan, the country is amazing but the work culture here is terrible. What good is all the nice stuff when you're slaving away half your life?
- deciplex 12y ago
  Yes, I've been a software developer here for a number of years. You can find something, but you will be a lot more limited in the kind of work you can do, and the salary you can demand. Over the long term this can have pretty serious career consequences. If you just want to come here for a few years as a semi-temporary thing, you'll do fine. But, if you are thinking about putting down roots here, well, good luck :-)

triton3156 12y ago

Even large Japanese companies already started to think the overly standardized screening process didn't fit the current world of internationalization. So it unlikely happen that just wading a blue shirt or carrying a nylon bag cause your interview failure.