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I am not sure online learning is for everyone or for every age. College is much more than the classes. And I believe the "suspended reality" when attending c

by igrekel 17y ago

I am not sure online learning is for everyone or for every age. College is much more than the classes. And I believe the "suspended reality" when attending college actually helps learning. And I don't count being able to answer online multiple choice questions as having learned something. Education is not cramming knowledge in your skull, and a course is not just going through the cartesian description of the subjects it covers. And lastly what makes a class good is not only the teacher but what emerges from the group in terms of dynamics, attitude, atmosphere and feeling. I would believe that if watching a lecture by Feynman on the web is inspiring, being in is class was much more. If what the article describes really is the future, I probably would have dropped out and become a mechanic or something.

yardie 17y ago
While I agree about what college used to be and what it should be the reality is vastly different. College is turning into an extension of highschool where the grades don't reflect the students but the course/teacher/college. When I first arrived I read and signed a piece of paper, I believed in, about the honor code; how cheating undermines the student and university. The reality was cheating was so rampant I thought I was the only one that bothered to read that paper. And I can see why it was so popular. Recruiters weren't interested in what type of student you were, just what your GPA/QCA was. I asked some of my friends why they chose to cheat and the answer was they 'needed' a grade. It wasn't what they needed, it was the job they 'needed' wanted them to have a minimum 3.5 GPA. I realized, a bit late, that college was not about learning, but getting a good job in some big company. I wasn't a great student, but I learned a lot through participating in projects and contributing something to the university besides tuition. I handed my CV out to a lot of companies and most just gave it back after reading my GPA completely ignoring my work on battery and solar powered vehicles. Now when I give advice on college it's basically do whatever you need to to graduate, education be damned. As far as I'm concerned education is the last thing on the colleges' minds. Universities have raised the stakes so high it stopped being about learning and all about buying an education.
- rdtsc 17y ago
  > When I first arrived I read and signed a piece of paper. You should have made the university sign a paper saying it wasn't going to cheat you out good learning environment. A university where it is possible to cheat and it is part of the culture is also cheating you out of your money and learning. I think telling what you just told here to an employee should make them not look at your GPA as much, and you probably don't really want to work for a company that looks at GPA only.
- igrekel 17y ago
  Well, when I wrote my comment I was not thinking of college as something you do to get a job or to get grades even if this is what many people are in it for. If all someone is looking for is a paper, grades and a job. Then what it article offers seems inevitable. Teh we'll need something else to replace college
timwiseman 17y ago
You have many excellent points. I am not sure that calling it "suspended reality" is accurate though. For many, especially those on either very good scholarships or with well off parents, it is an extension of high school. But that just means they get a more gradual transition from high school to the working world. Then there are a lot of people like me. I worked full time while going to school full time to get my undergrad and now I am working full time and going to school part time working on my masters, both at traditional State colleges. I got married during my undergrad and my second child was born while I was working on my masters. Reality has certainly not been suspended for people in that kind of situation. I do agree that the Focus and immersion that going to classes in person on a campus surrounded by other students provides a lot of value, if that is what you were getting at.
rdtsc 17y ago
Would you be willing to spend $100k in 4 years to be "part of the group dynamics" ? Perhaps so. The university is a networking place, a place to meet future business partners. There is some value in that. Or perhaps,going to a particular university has become a singaling mechanism to communicate "my family is rich and can afford to send me here", or "I am so smart I was picked from 10,000 candidates to attend this prestigious college. That makes me special." and so on ... I am just not sure that a $100k worth of student loans is a good price for that. Someone can already be a part of community life, participate in open source projects, go to conferences , sprints, etc. It might be exactly the same but for someone not having that $100k is certinaly a good enough option.
- igrekel 17y ago
  You got me thinking, maybe I could sum it up better this way: I don't think it is about getting trivia knowledge or a community, or meeting people, it is about getting a change of mind. I always saw the goal as to change the way you see the world. I am not a reference but is I think why all the articles of that style don't resonate well with me.

by igrekel 17y ago

yardie 17y ago

While I agree about what college used to be and what it should be the reality is vastly different. College is turning into an extension of highschool where the grades don't reflect the students but the course/teacher/college. When I first arrived I read and signed a piece of paper, I believed in, about the honor code; how cheating undermines the student and university. The reality was cheating was so rampant I thought I was the only one that bothered to read that paper. And I can see why it was so popular. Recruiters weren't interested in what type of student you were, just what your GPA/QCA was. I asked some of my friends why they chose to cheat and the answer was they 'needed' a grade. It wasn't what they needed, it was the job they 'needed' wanted them to have a minimum 3.5 GPA. I realized, a bit late, that college was not about learning, but getting a good job in some big company. I wasn't a great student, but I learned a lot through participating in projects and contributing something to the university besides tuition. I handed my CV out to a lot of companies and most just gave it back after reading my GPA completely ignoring my work on battery and solar powered vehicles. Now when I give advice on college it's basically do whatever you need to to graduate, education be damned. As far as I'm concerned education is the last thing on the colleges' minds. Universities have raised the stakes so high it stopped being about learning and all about buying an education.

rdtsc 17y ago
> When I first arrived I read and signed a piece of paper. You should have made the university sign a paper saying it wasn't going to cheat you out good learning environment. A university where it is possible to cheat and it is part of the culture is also cheating you out of your money and learning. I think telling what you just told here to an employee should make them not look at your GPA as much, and you probably don't really want to work for a company that looks at GPA only.
igrekel 17y ago
Well, when I wrote my comment I was not thinking of college as something you do to get a job or to get grades even if this is what many people are in it for. If all someone is looking for is a paper, grades and a job. Then what it article offers seems inevitable. Teh we'll need something else to replace college

timwiseman 17y ago

You have many excellent points. I am not sure that calling it "suspended reality" is accurate though. For many, especially those on either very good scholarships or with well off parents, it is an extension of high school. But that just means they get a more gradual transition from high school to the working world. Then there are a lot of people like me. I worked full time while going to school full time to get my undergrad and now I am working full time and going to school part time working on my masters, both at traditional State colleges. I got married during my undergrad and my second child was born while I was working on my masters. Reality has certainly not been suspended for people in that kind of situation. I do agree that the Focus and immersion that going to classes in person on a campus surrounded by other students provides a lot of value, if that is what you were getting at.

rdtsc 17y ago

Would you be willing to spend $100k in 4 years to be "part of the group dynamics" ? Perhaps so. The university is a networking place, a place to meet future business partners. There is some value in that. Or perhaps,going to a particular university has become a singaling mechanism to communicate "my family is rich and can afford to send me here", or "I am so smart I was picked from 10,000 candidates to attend this prestigious college. That makes me special." and so on ... I am just not sure that a $100k worth of student loans is a good price for that. Someone can already be a part of community life, participate in open source projects, go to conferences , sprints, etc. It might be exactly the same but for someone not having that $100k is certinaly a good enough option.

igrekel 17y ago
You got me thinking, maybe I could sum it up better this way: I don't think it is about getting trivia knowledge or a community, or meeting people, it is about getting a change of mind. I always saw the goal as to change the way you see the world. I am not a reference but is I think why all the articles of that style don't resonate well with me.