6 ms·

it's a given, if you read a post like this, it'll be about Thailand in some way.

stephenr 12y ago
also a pretty good chance the words “work permit” won’t appear in the article anywhere. just because you don’t agree with certain laws, doesnt mean you can just ignore them.
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Yup. As it happens, Thailand's currently doing one of its periodic crackdown on tourist visa abuse: http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-visa-crackdown-junta-warns-20140801-zzdvp.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-vis... And it's actually quite difficult to do remote work or establish permanent residence legally in Thailand: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thailand-visa-run-crackdown.htm http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thai...
  - gregjor 12y ago
    Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads. Just look at the ads and the bar (and bar girl) reviews. Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops, it's easier than most places. The crackdown is mostly aimed at migrant laborers from Cambodia and Myanmar, and at backpackers who spend their time in Thailand drinking and smoking pot.
    - stephenr 12y ago
      > Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. I skimmed the linked page and this little gem jumped out: "Some support a Thai partner and kids, perhaps their own kids, perhaps their partner's from a previous relationship. Throughout Pattaya, Isaan and the north thousands, maybe tens of thousands, fit this profile - and they could be shut out." I dont profess to be an expert on all things Thai, but after 2 years here, that sentence tells me plenty. You could equally describe exactly the same group of foreigners with much fewer words: "retiree sexpat". > Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops This is absolutely true. I went through the process while the protests + failed election were going on, and the biggest hassle was departments being closed/relocated, and road closures while heading to meetings with our lawyer in BKK.
  - sirn 12y ago
    The General just announced on the public television yesterday that he told the Immigration Bureau to be flexible on the Visa runs[1][2] citing lack of English teachers and academics. They're currently looking for solutions and even though I'm Thai, I really hope to hear a good news on this. Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though. [1]: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bureau-told-to-be-flexible-with-visa-r-30241608.html http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bur... [2]: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-bureau-told-to-be-flexible-with-visa-runners/ http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-burea...
    - stephenr 12y ago
      > Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though Probably just the most visible. From what I understand, plenty of schools rely on foreign english teachers but aren't prepared to hire them legally. I'm still not really sure why they don't go the legal route - maybe the extra effort involved, or maybe because they want to pay less than the mandated minimum salary for foreigners. For those not familiar, minimum salary is not standard across the board in Thailand, it depends on nationality. For most "western" foreigners it's 50K THB/month, whereas for Thai citizens it's about 9K THB/month.
- gregjor 12y ago
  I didn't use the term "work permit" but I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..." The laws around digital nomads, to say nothing of enforcement, have never been clear in Thailand. Bans on foreigners working in any country are intended to prevent foreigners taking jobs away from locals. Digital nomads don't do that. As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand: http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/ http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici... You still need a visa, of course.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    > I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..." In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit. > have never been clear in Thailand That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time. > this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand: Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.
    - true_religion 12y ago
      So lets say you are a manager for a normal 9-to-5 company, and head to Thailand on vacation. If you receive a phone call from work would that technically be illegal since you are doing your paid work from a thai beach?
      - stephenr 12y ago
        I get that you are trying to push the example to the extreme, but it's hardly the same situation. For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).
- AlexNeoNomad 12y ago
  And they don't have to. The work he does doesn't relate to Thailand at all. Do you think if someone is going to stay in Thailand for 2 weeks and work online, they'll going to get a work visa? For what? Where's a company? People? Office? For 2 weeks? And they'll have to do the same thing for any country they go? That's bunk! He doesn't break a law working online! unless he receives money to a Thai bank.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    Sorry but you are wrong. Thai law states that conducting any work requires a work permit. It "relates" to Thailand because the person is physically located in Thailand.
    - AlexNeoNomad 12y ago
      1) And what Thai law consider work exactly? 2) According to you, if a businessman comes to Thailand to rest for 2 weeks and decided to do some work for one day on his laptop (which he brought with him) then he'll become a criminal and can be taken to a jail. 3) According to you, millions of people break this law every day: they come from their countries to other country and once they reply or send an email (or something like that) - they are criminals!!!
      - stephenr 12y ago
        I don't remember the exact phrase off the top of my head but it's basically a generic description to describe someone exerting energy to do something - e.g. even foreigners who want to volunteer in Thailand need a work permit to do so. Not according to me. The law says what it says. The chances of being arrested for working one day while on holiday are pretty much zero, but technically it's still a breach of the law. Even someone who comes for a month and works every day has very little chance of being caught or even being an issue the police would be concerned about/investigating, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is legal. You seem to somehow think that because this law is in place in Thailand, I'm suggesting it is in place elsewhere? Why? I never mentioned any country but Thailand.
dcarmo 12y ago
Why Thailand? Low cost of living?
- corv 12y ago
  If you look at my previous post you'll see some more details but basically it boils down to friendlier, happier people, lower cost of living/higher standard of living, better weather, better and cheaper health services compared to the rest of SE Asia especially and some western countries in particular. Also, and this is a big point I have to add, it's easy enough to get around with basic english here unlike China for example.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    The "get around with basic english" part might be true if you live like a tourist and don't venture outside of Bangkok/Pattaya/Phuket/Chiang Mai.. some parts of the country are surprised just to see a westerner, much less have any chance of speaking english. I say this not to disparage them in any way (it's their country after all), simply as an observation. To the parent: for some (particularly either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men) the attraction is likely somewhat related to what they do besides work.
    - gregjor 12y ago
      Good generalization of the approximately 500,000 expats living in Thailand. You are perpetuating the sex tourist stereotype that is just as disparaging to Thais as it is to the sexpat.
      - stephenr 12y ago
        Can you not read? Did you not see the word "some"? > "at least a small amount or number of people or things" Edit: furthermore, if you think that the presence of sexpats, or the way some Thai people are "attracted" to them/their wallets, is disparaging to NORMAL Thai people, you are deluded. I don't ever remember anyone ever saying all American women are gold diggers because of Anna Nicole Smith's antics.

also a pretty good chance the words “work permit” won’t appear in the article anywhere. just because you don’t agree with certain laws, doesnt mean you can just ignore them.

jpatokal 12y ago
Yup. As it happens, Thailand's currently doing one of its periodic crackdown on tourist visa abuse: http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-visa-crackdown-junta-warns-20140801-zzdvp.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/australians-in-thailand-face-vis... And it's actually quite difficult to do remote work or establish permanent residence legally in Thailand: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thailand-visa-run-crackdown.htm http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Thai...
- gregjor 12y ago
  Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads. Just look at the ads and the bar (and bar girl) reviews. Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops, it's easier than most places. The crackdown is mostly aimed at migrant laborers from Cambodia and Myanmar, and at backpackers who spend their time in Thailand drinking and smoking pot.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    > Stickman's audience is not really digital nomads That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. I skimmed the linked page and this little gem jumped out: "Some support a Thai partner and kids, perhaps their own kids, perhaps their partner's from a previous relationship. Throughout Pattaya, Isaan and the north thousands, maybe tens of thousands, fit this profile - and they could be shut out." I dont profess to be an expert on all things Thai, but after 2 years here, that sentence tells me plenty. You could equally describe exactly the same group of foreigners with much fewer words: "retiree sexpat". > Anyone who wants to legitimately live in Thailand or work here can jump through the hoops This is absolutely true. I went through the process while the protests + failed election were going on, and the biggest hassle was departments being closed/relocated, and road closures while heading to meetings with our lawyer in BKK.
- sirn 12y ago
  The General just announced on the public television yesterday that he told the Immigration Bureau to be flexible on the Visa runs[1][2] citing lack of English teachers and academics. They're currently looking for solutions and even though I'm Thai, I really hope to hear a good news on this. Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though. [1]: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bureau-told-to-be-flexible-with-visa-r-30241608.html http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Immigration-Bur... [2]: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-bureau-told-to-be-flexible-with-visa-runners/ http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-burea...
  - stephenr 12y ago
    > Strange that the military seems to think most of Visa runners are English teachers, though Probably just the most visible. From what I understand, plenty of schools rely on foreign english teachers but aren't prepared to hire them legally. I'm still not really sure why they don't go the legal route - maybe the extra effort involved, or maybe because they want to pay less than the mandated minimum salary for foreigners. For those not familiar, minimum salary is not standard across the board in Thailand, it depends on nationality. For most "western" foreigners it's 50K THB/month, whereas for Thai citizens it's about 9K THB/month.
gregjor 12y ago
I didn't use the term "work permit" but I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..." The laws around digital nomads, to say nothing of enforcement, have never been clear in Thailand. Bans on foreigners working in any country are intended to prevent foreigners taking jobs away from locals. Digital nomads don't do that. As it turns out just this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand: http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/ http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici... You still need a visa, of course.
- stephenr 12y ago
  > I did write "You won’t legally be allowed to work in the countries you travel to..." In context, you are clearly talking about working for local companies. In countries like Thailand, it's illegal to work in any way (even volunteering falls into this category in Thailand) without a valid visa and work permit. > have never been clear in Thailand That's disingenuous at best. Its never been "ideal" but it's always been clear - if you want to work, you need a visa + work permit. That people working "online" for foreign entities have largely slipped through the cracks is irrelevant. Speeding isn't legal or "unclear" just because you don't get caught every time. > this week the Thai government decided it's OK for digital nomads to work in Thailand: Since i first started looking at the options for working in Thailand about 2 1/2 years ago (and moved here ~ 2 years ago) I've read numerous articles about these announcements from provincial immigration staff, only to have them either "clarified" to mean something different, or outright denied as being incorrect.
  - true_religion 12y ago
    So lets say you are a manager for a normal 9-to-5 company, and head to Thailand on vacation. If you receive a phone call from work would that technically be illegal since you are doing your paid work from a thai beach?
    - stephenr 12y ago
      I get that you are trying to push the example to the extreme, but it's hardly the same situation. For a more realistic example: it is perfectly legal for a foreigner to come to Thailand on a business visa (without a work permit) for the purpose of meetings. There is even a specific 3 year (vs regular 1 year) business visa that is specifically designed for this situation (it cannot be used to get a work permit).
AlexNeoNomad 12y ago
And they don't have to. The work he does doesn't relate to Thailand at all. Do you think if someone is going to stay in Thailand for 2 weeks and work online, they'll going to get a work visa? For what? Where's a company? People? Office? For 2 weeks? And they'll have to do the same thing for any country they go? That's bunk! He doesn't break a law working online! unless he receives money to a Thai bank.
- stephenr 12y ago
  Sorry but you are wrong. Thai law states that conducting any work requires a work permit. It "relates" to Thailand because the person is physically located in Thailand.
  - AlexNeoNomad 12y ago
    1) And what Thai law consider work exactly? 2) According to you, if a businessman comes to Thailand to rest for 2 weeks and decided to do some work for one day on his laptop (which he brought with him) then he'll become a criminal and can be taken to a jail. 3) According to you, millions of people break this law every day: they come from their countries to other country and once they reply or send an email (or something like that) - they are criminals!!!
    - stephenr 12y ago
      I don't remember the exact phrase off the top of my head but it's basically a generic description to describe someone exerting energy to do something - e.g. even foreigners who want to volunteer in Thailand need a work permit to do so. Not according to me. The law says what it says. The chances of being arrested for working one day while on holiday are pretty much zero, but technically it's still a breach of the law. Even someone who comes for a month and works every day has very little chance of being caught or even being an issue the police would be concerned about/investigating, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is legal. You seem to somehow think that because this law is in place in Thailand, I'm suggesting it is in place elsewhere? Why? I never mentioned any country but Thailand.

dcarmo 12y ago

Why Thailand? Low cost of living?

corv 12y ago
If you look at my previous post you'll see some more details but basically it boils down to friendlier, happier people, lower cost of living/higher standard of living, better weather, better and cheaper health services compared to the rest of SE Asia especially and some western countries in particular. Also, and this is a big point I have to add, it's easy enough to get around with basic english here unlike China for example.
- stephenr 12y ago
  The "get around with basic english" part might be true if you live like a tourist and don't venture outside of Bangkok/Pattaya/Phuket/Chiang Mai.. some parts of the country are surprised just to see a westerner, much less have any chance of speaking english. I say this not to disparage them in any way (it's their country after all), simply as an observation. To the parent: for some (particularly either young and unattached, or middle aged/older unattached men) the attraction is likely somewhat related to what they do besides work.
  - gregjor 12y ago
    Good generalization of the approximately 500,000 expats living in Thailand. You are perpetuating the sex tourist stereotype that is just as disparaging to Thais as it is to the sexpat.
    - stephenr 12y ago
      Can you not read? Did you not see the word "some"? > "at least a small amount or number of people or things" Edit: furthermore, if you think that the presence of sexpats, or the way some Thai people are "attracted" to them/their wallets, is disparaging to NORMAL Thai people, you are deluded. I don't ever remember anyone ever saying all American women are gold diggers because of Anna Nicole Smith's antics.