4 ms·

Procrastinate Until You're Ready

29 points by messel 17y ago

jcw 17y ago
Steven Pressfield (author of Gates of Fire and Legend of Bagger Vance) would disagree: http://home.stevenpressfield.com/books/war_art.asp#excerpt http://home.stevenpressfield.com/books/war_art.asp#excerpt I highly recommend The War of Art, his book on overcoming procrastination for artists. Sit down every day and work.
- adamhowell 17y ago
  Man do I love 'The War of Art'. Written by the author of 'The Legend of Bagger Vance' and I find myself going back to it again and again and recommending it every chance I get.
- messel 17y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation, looks damn interesting. I hope folks don't think I'm proposing to do nothing. Keep active in all the areas you can manage. But when it comes to producing your finest work, the inspirational energy will keep you going. "Fire when you see the whites of their eyes".
yef 17y ago
Wrong, possibly evil advice. Just my opinion.
- hcayless 17y ago
  Well, the name of the site is "the defeated spirit"...so maybe it's that on purpose...
  - messel 17y ago
    http://www.eudict.com/?lang=lateng&word=victus&go=Search http://www.eudict.com/?lang=lateng&word=victus&go=Se...
- messel 17y ago
  I'd appreciate comments as to why you think so after reading.
  - yef 17y ago
    From personal experience, procrastination does nothing to improve my readiness. Diligence, working at my craft, developing a process for working through setbacks and obstacles, etc...these are all things that improve my readiness AND my overall level of inspiration and creativity. My outside reading on creativity confirms my personal opinion. Frankly, I think procrastination is the single worst drain on an information-based economy, and I have a hard time seeing any arguments in defense of procastination. Just being honest about my bias.
    - messel 17y ago
      Thanks yef. While I don't agree, perhaps it's a cognitive bias of mine? I need some down cycles, or to chew on a different topic or listen to music to let my brain breathe a little. Perhaps our individual nature plays very much into our creative aspects. You, for example are at your most creative when at the grindstone pushing yourself forward. I always have my best concepts in the foggy moments after waking up in the middle of the night. Walking is like meditation for me, and gives my brain a chance to wander/explore a problem space without judgement. Actually building something requires ritualistic dedication though. Coming up with the original inspiration, not so much.
rooshdi 17y ago
Procrastination is inversely correlated with motivation and is usually a sign of disinterest or misunderstanding of a task or project. Usually this problem can be diminished through setting realistic goals that one feels passionate about achieving. I believe an aura of constant mystery within a project is a key motivating factor for most individuals due to the intriguing unknowns and self discoveries that one constantly encounters throughout the process of development.
- chipsy 17y ago
  No, procrastination and slow pacing can be a sign that your creative batteries are recharging; it is a cycle. You abruptly plunge into intensive focus on a problem, rest, and repeat. On a long project you just take many, many cycles to finish, and the key to success is simply to be able to fight through the melancholy that occurs at the bottom of each wave, getting enough done to get back on the upward trajectory again. If your motivations are intact this won't be a problem, though you may have feelings of self-loathing since this sloth is in conflict with the Puritan-style work ethic.
  - messel 17y ago
    I agree with boss possibilities (you could be on a project that dead ends after a time). I definitely believe in the cyclic nature of our passion driven energy, that's why I wrote the post. Wait till your ready (of course keep working as long as you're interested), but don't expect to produce a masterpiece every time you sit down.
  - rooshdi 17y ago
    Well there seems to be many interpretations of what procrastination actually is, but who is to say the "recharging of batteries" is procrastination and not the actual process of one continuing the organization/development of their tasks through the brain unconsciously. The type of "brain-charging" procrastination you are implying is different in the sense that the individual is usually motivated to accomplish a certain task or goal and is just taking a break to regain his "senses", while the type of procrastination I was referring to was a consistent lack of desire to work on certain tasks. Both types of procrastination may be similar in the minds of some, but provide very drastic consequences when compared side-by-side objectively.
RyanMcGreal 17y ago
No. Greatness is not achieved by waiting for the right moment for inspiration to strike - it's achieved by years of dedication, commitment and hard work.
- messel 17y ago
  I don't think anyone can tell you when to be creative. You need to decide. If you want to do so for years on end because you have the gift to, more power to ya.
  - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
    When to be creative: Right now. Not later. Later will never come. I'll be creative later is the excuse we make for not just putting our heads down and creating what we want to create. Here's an example of what I mean: Ask any writer who has written a book how they did it. They will answer by telling you they did it by sitting down and writing, day after day, until the book was finished. Now ask anyone who wants to be a writer but has not written a book why they haven't done it. Their answers will all be different in detail, but will reduce to the same thing: they did not sit down and write, day after day, until the book is was finished.
    - messel 17y ago
      Looks like we have radically different philosophies on creativity. I like your description Ryan (and admire dedication towards a goal you care about). But I can't help but feel you can burn yourself out if you're not careful. I find my own work effectiveness to vary. Sometimes I'm a machine, cranking out great code/ideas but at other times my brain really does prefer other input/stimuli. Of course spending time with my fiance is always energizing. Going for long walks is my reset/refresh, checking out a museum or movie helps to. Browsing HN or other social shares is great to.
      - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
        I don't think my philosophy is radically different from yours. My experience is similar to yours, and in fact I'm only really productive when I have a lot of (too many?) projects on the go. I'm not suggesting you should commit every waking moment to a project until it's completed (if I did, I'd be guilty of the worst hypocrisy). Rather, I'm suggesting that if you want to complete a creative project, you need to commit to regular work on it, starting now and not at some unspecified point in the future.
edw519 17y ago
For me, I need both creativity and grunt work to make progress. And they depend on each other. Sometimes that creative leap is only possible because I've done all the little stuff to put me at the point where I can finally "see the light". OTOH, a creative breakthrough usually generates a whole bunch of tasks to be done in order to implement that creative idea. I have never been able to "force creativity". It comes much more easily at certain times and in certain situations. So what do I do when the creative juices aren't flowing as much as I'd like? The grunt work, of course. There's always plenty of that. Procrastination as a strategy? Never. As an excuse? Sure.
- messel 17y ago
  Perhaps rotating your activities is a better suggestion, than simply putting one of them off. I'm wondering if everyone that comments is reading the post?
sethg 17y ago
Natalie Goldberg, in Writing Down the Bones, described how for a while, whenever she sat down to write she would just have this immense feeling of inner peace flow through her, as if she were close to enlightenment, and she thought "Well, I will just sit here and meditate, because after all, this is the state of mind that writing is supposed to bring me to." She finally described her feelings to her Zen master, who said, "Oh, that's just laziness. Get to work."
- messel 17y ago
  We've all been guilty of laziness at one time or another. But there are definitely some BURST periods of time (weeks/months) where I'm super productive, versus quasi-productive or outright unproductive.
rokhayakebe 17y ago
Note: This is not a business advise.
moron4hire 17y ago
Creative inspiration is not a bolt of lightning that hits you at random. It's a process of cascading train-of-thought. If you never get that train to leave the station, you're never going to get anywhere. You need to stop procrastinating and force yourself to work to put yourself in the necessary conditions for creative work to happen. Sitting around, watching movies, eating cheezy-poofs isn't going to do it.
- messel 17y ago
  If someone puts a gun to my head and demands I produce my most elegant and thoughtful work, there's a damn good chance he's going to be disappointed. You can't force it. I'm not suggestion doing absolutely nothing with your time, but instead allow yourself some time to think things over.
  - moron4hire 17y ago
    Some of the greatest works of art have been created in essentially that situation. The subtly subversive works of artists toiling under the employ oppressive, totalitarian governments, people like Hans Fischerkoesen.
chimariko 17y ago
I think it is only possible to say whether one's work is great in a while after it has been done. It's a good idea to take up something that you really like and dive into it because the fact that you like the subject raises the odds of your success. It is quite useless to look for an area where the average chances are high unless you are interested in the subject matter. In terms of the Mark's hypothesis that "our greatest life’s works will be inspired from both within and desired externally" I would definitely emphasize the "inspired from within" part.
- messel 17y ago
  Great comments chimariko. I hope much of the HackerNews feedback gets back (by disqus) under the original post. Even within great disagreements there's a helluva lot of value added.
diiq 17y ago
Couldn't paint what I'm painting now, if I didn't paint what came before it first --- even if what came before was utter drivel. I will agree with this: Always work when you're inspired. Don't let it slip past you. But: Always work when you're uninspired. The work is the source of the inspiration --- not contemplating the opening lotus blossom.
- messel 17y ago
  I find living is inspirational. Going for a walk, chatting online, etc.
  - diiq 17y ago
    Absoutely. No one can work all the time. If I go for a walk after a few hours in the studio, I see the world as a source to draw from, a fountain of ideas. The world inspires because the work is an inspiration-tinted lens. Going for a walk after a few hours of chatting online after a few hours of cleaning the bathroom after a few days of not working --- then I rarely find myself inspired; what feels like inspiration is mundane once realized, like the violent discovery that milk's gone sour. The only benefit gained is that I'm working again.
listic 17y ago
This looks like the thing Leonard Cohen mocked in "First We Take Manhattan": And I thank you for those items that you sent me The monkey and the plywood violin I practiced every night, now I'm ready First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin http://nickolai.tumblr.com/post/146013703/first-we-take-manhattan http://nickolai.tumblr.com/post/146013703/first-we-take-manh...

29 points by messel 17y ago

jcw 17y ago

Steven Pressfield (author of Gates of Fire and Legend of Bagger Vance) would disagree: http://home.stevenpressfield.com/books/war_art.asp#excerpt http://home.stevenpressfield.com/books/war_art.asp#excerpt I highly recommend The War of Art, his book on overcoming procrastination for artists. Sit down every day and work.

adamhowell 17y ago
Man do I love 'The War of Art'. Written by the author of 'The Legend of Bagger Vance' and I find myself going back to it again and again and recommending it every chance I get.
messel 17y ago
Thanks for the recommendation, looks damn interesting. I hope folks don't think I'm proposing to do nothing. Keep active in all the areas you can manage. But when it comes to producing your finest work, the inspirational energy will keep you going. "Fire when you see the whites of their eyes".

yef 17y ago

Wrong, possibly evil advice. Just my opinion.

hcayless 17y ago
Well, the name of the site is "the defeated spirit"...so maybe it's that on purpose...
- messel 17y ago
  http://www.eudict.com/?lang=lateng&word=victus&go=Search http://www.eudict.com/?lang=lateng&word=victus&go=Se...
messel 17y ago
I'd appreciate comments as to why you think so after reading.
- yef 17y ago
  From personal experience, procrastination does nothing to improve my readiness. Diligence, working at my craft, developing a process for working through setbacks and obstacles, etc...these are all things that improve my readiness AND my overall level of inspiration and creativity. My outside reading on creativity confirms my personal opinion. Frankly, I think procrastination is the single worst drain on an information-based economy, and I have a hard time seeing any arguments in defense of procastination. Just being honest about my bias.
  - messel 17y ago
    Thanks yef. While I don't agree, perhaps it's a cognitive bias of mine? I need some down cycles, or to chew on a different topic or listen to music to let my brain breathe a little. Perhaps our individual nature plays very much into our creative aspects. You, for example are at your most creative when at the grindstone pushing yourself forward. I always have my best concepts in the foggy moments after waking up in the middle of the night. Walking is like meditation for me, and gives my brain a chance to wander/explore a problem space without judgement. Actually building something requires ritualistic dedication though. Coming up with the original inspiration, not so much.

rooshdi 17y ago

Procrastination is inversely correlated with motivation and is usually a sign of disinterest or misunderstanding of a task or project. Usually this problem can be diminished through setting realistic goals that one feels passionate about achieving. I believe an aura of constant mystery within a project is a key motivating factor for most individuals due to the intriguing unknowns and self discoveries that one constantly encounters throughout the process of development.

chipsy 17y ago
No, procrastination and slow pacing can be a sign that your creative batteries are recharging; it is a cycle. You abruptly plunge into intensive focus on a problem, rest, and repeat. On a long project you just take many, many cycles to finish, and the key to success is simply to be able to fight through the melancholy that occurs at the bottom of each wave, getting enough done to get back on the upward trajectory again. If your motivations are intact this won't be a problem, though you may have feelings of self-loathing since this sloth is in conflict with the Puritan-style work ethic.
- messel 17y ago
  I agree with boss possibilities (you could be on a project that dead ends after a time). I definitely believe in the cyclic nature of our passion driven energy, that's why I wrote the post. Wait till your ready (of course keep working as long as you're interested), but don't expect to produce a masterpiece every time you sit down.
- rooshdi 17y ago
  Well there seems to be many interpretations of what procrastination actually is, but who is to say the "recharging of batteries" is procrastination and not the actual process of one continuing the organization/development of their tasks through the brain unconsciously. The type of "brain-charging" procrastination you are implying is different in the sense that the individual is usually motivated to accomplish a certain task or goal and is just taking a break to regain his "senses", while the type of procrastination I was referring to was a consistent lack of desire to work on certain tasks. Both types of procrastination may be similar in the minds of some, but provide very drastic consequences when compared side-by-side objectively.

RyanMcGreal 17y ago

No. Greatness is not achieved by waiting for the right moment for inspiration to strike - it's achieved by years of dedication, commitment and hard work.

messel 17y ago
I don't think anyone can tell you when to be creative. You need to decide. If you want to do so for years on end because you have the gift to, more power to ya.
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  When to be creative: Right now. Not later. Later will never come. I'll be creative later is the excuse we make for not just putting our heads down and creating what we want to create. Here's an example of what I mean: Ask any writer who has written a book how they did it. They will answer by telling you they did it by sitting down and writing, day after day, until the book was finished. Now ask anyone who wants to be a writer but has not written a book why they haven't done it. Their answers will all be different in detail, but will reduce to the same thing: they did not sit down and write, day after day, until the book is was finished.
  - messel 17y ago
    Looks like we have radically different philosophies on creativity. I like your description Ryan (and admire dedication towards a goal you care about). But I can't help but feel you can burn yourself out if you're not careful. I find my own work effectiveness to vary. Sometimes I'm a machine, cranking out great code/ideas but at other times my brain really does prefer other input/stimuli. Of course spending time with my fiance is always energizing. Going for long walks is my reset/refresh, checking out a museum or movie helps to. Browsing HN or other social shares is great to.
    - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
      I don't think my philosophy is radically different from yours. My experience is similar to yours, and in fact I'm only really productive when I have a lot of (too many?) projects on the go. I'm not suggesting you should commit every waking moment to a project until it's completed (if I did, I'd be guilty of the worst hypocrisy). Rather, I'm suggesting that if you want to complete a creative project, you need to commit to regular work on it, starting now and not at some unspecified point in the future.

edw519 17y ago

For me, I need both creativity and grunt work to make progress. And they depend on each other. Sometimes that creative leap is only possible because I've done all the little stuff to put me at the point where I can finally "see the light". OTOH, a creative breakthrough usually generates a whole bunch of tasks to be done in order to implement that creative idea. I have never been able to "force creativity". It comes much more easily at certain times and in certain situations. So what do I do when the creative juices aren't flowing as much as I'd like? The grunt work, of course. There's always plenty of that. Procrastination as a strategy? Never. As an excuse? Sure.

messel 17y ago
Perhaps rotating your activities is a better suggestion, than simply putting one of them off. I'm wondering if everyone that comments is reading the post?

sethg 17y ago

Natalie Goldberg, in Writing Down the Bones, described how for a while, whenever she sat down to write she would just have this immense feeling of inner peace flow through her, as if she were close to enlightenment, and she thought "Well, I will just sit here and meditate, because after all, this is the state of mind that writing is supposed to bring me to." She finally described her feelings to her Zen master, who said, "Oh, that's just laziness. Get to work."

messel 17y ago
We've all been guilty of laziness at one time or another. But there are definitely some BURST periods of time (weeks/months) where I'm super productive, versus quasi-productive or outright unproductive.

rokhayakebe 17y ago

Note: This is not a business advise.

moron4hire 17y ago

Creative inspiration is not a bolt of lightning that hits you at random. It's a process of cascading train-of-thought. If you never get that train to leave the station, you're never going to get anywhere. You need to stop procrastinating and force yourself to work to put yourself in the necessary conditions for creative work to happen. Sitting around, watching movies, eating cheezy-poofs isn't going to do it.

messel 17y ago
If someone puts a gun to my head and demands I produce my most elegant and thoughtful work, there's a damn good chance he's going to be disappointed. You can't force it. I'm not suggestion doing absolutely nothing with your time, but instead allow yourself some time to think things over.
- moron4hire 17y ago
  Some of the greatest works of art have been created in essentially that situation. The subtly subversive works of artists toiling under the employ oppressive, totalitarian governments, people like Hans Fischerkoesen.

chimariko 17y ago

I think it is only possible to say whether one's work is great in a while after it has been done. It's a good idea to take up something that you really like and dive into it because the fact that you like the subject raises the odds of your success. It is quite useless to look for an area where the average chances are high unless you are interested in the subject matter. In terms of the Mark's hypothesis that "our greatest life’s works will be inspired from both within and desired externally" I would definitely emphasize the "inspired from within" part.

messel 17y ago
Great comments chimariko. I hope much of the HackerNews feedback gets back (by disqus) under the original post. Even within great disagreements there's a helluva lot of value added.

diiq 17y ago

Couldn't paint what I'm painting now, if I didn't paint what came before it first --- even if what came before was utter drivel. I will agree with this: Always work when you're inspired. Don't let it slip past you. But: Always work when you're uninspired. The work is the source of the inspiration --- not contemplating the opening lotus blossom.

messel 17y ago
I find living is inspirational. Going for a walk, chatting online, etc.
- diiq 17y ago
  Absoutely. No one can work all the time. If I go for a walk after a few hours in the studio, I see the world as a source to draw from, a fountain of ideas. The world inspires because the work is an inspiration-tinted lens. Going for a walk after a few hours of chatting online after a few hours of cleaning the bathroom after a few days of not working --- then I rarely find myself inspired; what feels like inspiration is mundane once realized, like the violent discovery that milk's gone sour. The only benefit gained is that I'm working again.

listic 17y ago

This looks like the thing Leonard Cohen mocked in "First We Take Manhattan": And I thank you for those items that you sent me The monkey and the plywood violin I practiced every night, now I'm ready First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin http://nickolai.tumblr.com/post/146013703/first-we-take-manhattan http://nickolai.tumblr.com/post/146013703/first-we-take-manh...