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> He turns the question back on me. If there was no Secret, or an app like it, where would this anonymous poster go for catharsis? Where would he share his stru

> He turns the question back on me. If there was no Secret, or an app like it, where would this anonymous poster go for catharsis? Where would he share his struggle with mental illness? He could do it by snail-mail: http://postsecret.com/ http://postsecret.com/

hownottowrite 12y ago
Without a hint of sarcasm... How about with a doctor instead of random, faceless strangers? How about someone who can actually help?
- valarauca1 12y ago
  Some mental illnesses make directly talking about the problem you have difficult. There is actually a large lack of anonymous therapeutic solutions for emotional and mental disorders for those who need them. Simply saying, "Use your brain and solve your problem." To a mental patient is very insulting and extremely marginalizing to their condition.
  - hownottowrite 12y ago
    I didn't suggest that they solve it on their own. Quite the opposite really. Following your logic, Secret is actually encouraging the very practice you called out as abhorrent.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      Telling someone to just get help is about a hair's breadth away from telling someone to just get better.
      - hownottowrite 12y ago
        No, telling someone to seek qualified help is the responsible thing to do whe one is unqualified to help. Providing untrained, unqualified, and anonymous help is both unethical and dangerous. If Secret staffed trained professionals to provide anonymous help, that would e different. They don't.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        >Providing untrained, unqualified, and anonymous help is both unethical and dangerous. It's also sometimes the only help that people will ever get. Talking to people about their problems can't be declared as forbidden or irresponsible unless mediated by a doctor. That's both unrealistic and it implies an initial unqualified diagnosis over the internet by a stranger to decide that a statement constitutes mental illness rather than a simple sharing of internal states - making an absolute statement like the one you're making self-contradictory. For example, I'm upset about a discussion that I had with my sister the other day. It makes me sad, and slightly worried. Should I continue to talk about it, or should I consult a doctor? If you answer that question, is it a diagnosis? Should all inter-human communications be routed through mental health professionals just in case?
        hownottowrite 12y ago
        If you're talking about the usual gripes and daily complaints, then sure, talk to whomever you want. If you're talking about serious mental illness, which was the entire point of this comment, then it needs to be handled by professionals or at least someone with basic training.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        My entire point is that you're making a diagnosis when you say that someone has serious mental illness. It's fine to say that one should encourage people to seek professional help. To condemn people who are not professional and give help is terrible IMO (and not supported by the science), especially considering that experimentally the outcomes of any talking therapy are equivalent regardless of content (from priests to psychoanalysts), and SSRIs generally perform no better than placebo. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird_verdict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird_verdict http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712503/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712503/
        hownottowrite 12y ago
        That's unfortunate because I didn't make any diagnosis at all. I was reacting to the following in the article (as referenced by the comment to which I originally replied): [I pick out one of the posts promoted to Secret’s homepage, and read it to Byttow over the phone: “At work I’m being given more and more responsibility. Silently I’m struggling with mental illness.” Does Secret provide enough anonymity for that user? He turns the question back on me. If there was no Secret, or an app like it, where would this anonymous poster go for catharsis? Where would he share his struggle with mental illness? Facebook? Don’t make him laugh.] Clearly, the interviewer and CEO David Byttow are talking about mental illness. They are not talking about someone having a bad day or even suffering from mild, common depression. They are talking about mental illness, and I am reacting to their discussion of mental illness. My original point, short as it was, is that someone with an actual mental illness ought to seek actual treatment rather than the faceless world of something akin to Secret. This isn't to say that talking on Secret (our a diary for that matter) is a terrible thing. However, the assertion by Byttow is that his service provides a legitimate outlet for someone who may need real help and may pose a danger to themselves or others. Perhaps the meaning of "mental illness" is where we differ in the discussion? How about I reveal a "secret" which is quite true and we see where this goes... I do not know you, nor do you know me. I do not know if you or people you know suffer from mental illness. You do not know if I or people I know suffer from mental illness. I do not know if you or people you know have injured themselves or others as a result of their illness. You do not know if I or others I know have done likewise. However, I will reveal to you, that I have indeed known more than one person who suffered from serious mental illness. Some of these people have injured themselves and others as a result of this situation. Of this group, some received professional help. Most did not. Those who did not chose instead to keep it to themselves or to talk to unqualified people who had lots of supporting words but had absolutely no idea what they were actually dealing with. The results? In two cases, suicide. In one case, murder. Another particular person has conducted a lifelong campaign of mental and physical abuse against family members resulting in another person's suicide. In these four cases, could the issue have been resolved with proper assistance? I think so, at least in three of the cases. Would something like Secret help? Unlikely. These individuals needed real help. So, when I say that it is dangerous, it's because I have witnessed first hand how dangerous mental illness can be. It is dangerous for professionals and lay persons alike. It is dangerous for the individual suffering from the affliction and for those around them. Is this always the case? Of course, not. Perhaps your experience is different. I certainly hope so because it is a horrible thing to witness a person you know suffer in this manner and then cause injury to themselves or others. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
      - thirdtruck 12y ago
        Exactly. The very challenge of social anxiety, for example, is that asking for help is itself a terrifying experience. They might as well be telling a paraplegic to walk to the doctor.
      - gordaco 12y ago
        Thank you for understanding this. I wish more people did. I guess that most people don't know what a mental illness can be.
  - thinkpeace 12y ago
    It is not easy to talk about mental health issues or any other stigmatizing or threatening matter. That is one of the reasons why people take recourse to anonymous chat sites like Omegle and sharing apps like Secret. This leaves them even more vulnerable to attacks. However, there are startups like 7 Cups of Tea that go one step beyond and connect people anonymously with trained active listeners. If creating a support mechanism is not possible, a partnership with a provider of such service could help these anonymous networks. A responsible website/app must actively provide some amount of support to users. Tumblr has implemented it really well.
- benjaminpv 12y ago
  In the United States many insurance plans don't include coverage for psychiatric help; you're forced to pay out-of-pocket. Perversely, many of the people with conditions that hamper them from earning much are the most in need of care. Lacking an "official" means of support, people are forced to find new ways to seek out help.
  - jedanbik 12y ago
    Actually in the US, mental health benefits are now a mandatory part of health insurance coverage. Which is great...if you have health insurance coverage.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      In the US, individual purchase of health insurance is now mandatory (and in some cases subsidized), except for individuals above the threshhold for government provided health-insurance through Medicaid [1]. [1] This isn't exactly true in the few states that haven't expanded Medicaid eligibility as provided for in the ACA, since in those states there is a gap.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      It's important to note that people may not be aware of that because health care insurance has been in a bit of flux lately, to say the least, and there's been a lot of misinformation about the changes coming from a lot of directions.
      - benjaminpv 12y ago
        This is definitely true for me: the last time (last year) we'd had a meeting regarding our insurances I specifically asked about mental health coverage and was given the information I'd mentioned above. I'll accept the downvotes for my ignorance, but I feel like underlying message is still true: there's undoubtedly a lot of people without coverage still and those people need to seek help elsewhere.
- Gracana 12y ago
  That costs money and time and effort. Sometimes it's just nice to get something off your chest and move on.
  - mkal_tsr 12y ago
    PostSecret was made during a time when people didn't need an app for every function in their lives.
- comrh 12y ago
  A doctor would be ideal but I know a lot of people who just needed some reassurance they were not alone or broken or weird before they could get up the courage to see someone.
  - hownottowrite 12y ago
    My reaction was to the struggle with mental illness portion of his reply. Daily issue? Sure. That makes sense.
ZoFreX 12y ago
Or by signing up to an anonymous account on Reddit (there are several good subreddits for people who suffer from mental illnesses such as r/depression), or any of a huge number of traditional forum sites for that purpose. Or there's always 4chan. Even in the app space Secret hasn't cornered the market, there's Whisper for example which doesn't ask for your email address and doesn't show you your friends' posts. It's ridiculous to claim that Secret is the only option for that person.

hownottowrite 12y ago

Without a hint of sarcasm... How about with a doctor instead of random, faceless strangers? How about someone who can actually help?

valarauca1 12y ago
Some mental illnesses make directly talking about the problem you have difficult. There is actually a large lack of anonymous therapeutic solutions for emotional and mental disorders for those who need them. Simply saying, "Use your brain and solve your problem." To a mental patient is very insulting and extremely marginalizing to their condition.
- hownottowrite 12y ago
  I didn't suggest that they solve it on their own. Quite the opposite really. Following your logic, Secret is actually encouraging the very practice you called out as abhorrent.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    Telling someone to just get help is about a hair's breadth away from telling someone to just get better.
    - hownottowrite 12y ago
      No, telling someone to seek qualified help is the responsible thing to do whe one is unqualified to help. Providing untrained, unqualified, and anonymous help is both unethical and dangerous. If Secret staffed trained professionals to provide anonymous help, that would e different. They don't.
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        >Providing untrained, unqualified, and anonymous help is both unethical and dangerous. It's also sometimes the only help that people will ever get. Talking to people about their problems can't be declared as forbidden or irresponsible unless mediated by a doctor. That's both unrealistic and it implies an initial unqualified diagnosis over the internet by a stranger to decide that a statement constitutes mental illness rather than a simple sharing of internal states - making an absolute statement like the one you're making self-contradictory. For example, I'm upset about a discussion that I had with my sister the other day. It makes me sad, and slightly worried. Should I continue to talk about it, or should I consult a doctor? If you answer that question, is it a diagnosis? Should all inter-human communications be routed through mental health professionals just in case?
        hownottowrite 12y ago
        If you're talking about the usual gripes and daily complaints, then sure, talk to whomever you want. If you're talking about serious mental illness, which was the entire point of this comment, then it needs to be handled by professionals or at least someone with basic training.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        My entire point is that you're making a diagnosis when you say that someone has serious mental illness. It's fine to say that one should encourage people to seek professional help. To condemn people who are not professional and give help is terrible IMO (and not supported by the science), especially considering that experimentally the outcomes of any talking therapy are equivalent regardless of content (from priests to psychoanalysts), and SSRIs generally perform no better than placebo. edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird_verdict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird_verdict http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712503/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712503/
        hownottowrite 12y ago
        That's unfortunate because I didn't make any diagnosis at all. I was reacting to the following in the article (as referenced by the comment to which I originally replied): [I pick out one of the posts promoted to Secret’s homepage, and read it to Byttow over the phone: “At work I’m being given more and more responsibility. Silently I’m struggling with mental illness.” Does Secret provide enough anonymity for that user? He turns the question back on me. If there was no Secret, or an app like it, where would this anonymous poster go for catharsis? Where would he share his struggle with mental illness? Facebook? Don’t make him laugh.] Clearly, the interviewer and CEO David Byttow are talking about mental illness. They are not talking about someone having a bad day or even suffering from mild, common depression. They are talking about mental illness, and I am reacting to their discussion of mental illness. My original point, short as it was, is that someone with an actual mental illness ought to seek actual treatment rather than the faceless world of something akin to Secret. This isn't to say that talking on Secret (our a diary for that matter) is a terrible thing. However, the assertion by Byttow is that his service provides a legitimate outlet for someone who may need real help and may pose a danger to themselves or others. Perhaps the meaning of "mental illness" is where we differ in the discussion? How about I reveal a "secret" which is quite true and we see where this goes... I do not know you, nor do you know me. I do not know if you or people you know suffer from mental illness. You do not know if I or people I know suffer from mental illness. I do not know if you or people you know have injured themselves or others as a result of their illness. You do not know if I or others I know have done likewise. However, I will reveal to you, that I have indeed known more than one person who suffered from serious mental illness. Some of these people have injured themselves and others as a result of this situation. Of this group, some received professional help. Most did not. Those who did not chose instead to keep it to themselves or to talk to unqualified people who had lots of supporting words but had absolutely no idea what they were actually dealing with. The results? In two cases, suicide. In one case, murder. Another particular person has conducted a lifelong campaign of mental and physical abuse against family members resulting in another person's suicide. In these four cases, could the issue have been resolved with proper assistance? I think so, at least in three of the cases. Would something like Secret help? Unlikely. These individuals needed real help. So, when I say that it is dangerous, it's because I have witnessed first hand how dangerous mental illness can be. It is dangerous for professionals and lay persons alike. It is dangerous for the individual suffering from the affliction and for those around them. Is this always the case? Of course, not. Perhaps your experience is different. I certainly hope so because it is a horrible thing to witness a person you know suffer in this manner and then cause injury to themselves or others. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
    - thirdtruck 12y ago
      Exactly. The very challenge of social anxiety, for example, is that asking for help is itself a terrifying experience. They might as well be telling a paraplegic to walk to the doctor.
    - gordaco 12y ago
      Thank you for understanding this. I wish more people did. I guess that most people don't know what a mental illness can be.
- thinkpeace 12y ago
  It is not easy to talk about mental health issues or any other stigmatizing or threatening matter. That is one of the reasons why people take recourse to anonymous chat sites like Omegle and sharing apps like Secret. This leaves them even more vulnerable to attacks. However, there are startups like 7 Cups of Tea that go one step beyond and connect people anonymously with trained active listeners. If creating a support mechanism is not possible, a partnership with a provider of such service could help these anonymous networks. A responsible website/app must actively provide some amount of support to users. Tumblr has implemented it really well.
benjaminpv 12y ago
In the United States many insurance plans don't include coverage for psychiatric help; you're forced to pay out-of-pocket. Perversely, many of the people with conditions that hamper them from earning much are the most in need of care. Lacking an "official" means of support, people are forced to find new ways to seek out help.
- jedanbik 12y ago
  Actually in the US, mental health benefits are now a mandatory part of health insurance coverage. Which is great...if you have health insurance coverage.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    In the US, individual purchase of health insurance is now mandatory (and in some cases subsidized), except for individuals above the threshhold for government provided health-insurance through Medicaid [1]. [1] This isn't exactly true in the few states that haven't expanded Medicaid eligibility as provided for in the ACA, since in those states there is a gap.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    It's important to note that people may not be aware of that because health care insurance has been in a bit of flux lately, to say the least, and there's been a lot of misinformation about the changes coming from a lot of directions.
    - benjaminpv 12y ago
      This is definitely true for me: the last time (last year) we'd had a meeting regarding our insurances I specifically asked about mental health coverage and was given the information I'd mentioned above. I'll accept the downvotes for my ignorance, but I feel like underlying message is still true: there's undoubtedly a lot of people without coverage still and those people need to seek help elsewhere.
Gracana 12y ago
That costs money and time and effort. Sometimes it's just nice to get something off your chest and move on.
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  PostSecret was made during a time when people didn't need an app for every function in their lives.
comrh 12y ago
A doctor would be ideal but I know a lot of people who just needed some reassurance they were not alone or broken or weird before they could get up the courage to see someone.
- hownottowrite 12y ago
  My reaction was to the struggle with mental illness portion of his reply. Daily issue? Sure. That makes sense.

ZoFreX 12y ago

Or by signing up to an anonymous account on Reddit (there are several good subreddits for people who suffer from mental illnesses such as r/depression), or any of a huge number of traditional forum sites for that purpose. Or there's always 4chan. Even in the app space Secret hasn't cornered the market, there's Whisper for example which doesn't ask for your email address and doesn't show you your friends' posts. It's ridiculous to claim that Secret is the only option for that person.