2 ms·

A fantastic book to read on this topic is "A world lit only by fire" by William Manchester. He also makes the case that Europe emerged from superstition because

A fantastic book to read on this topic is "A world lit only by fire" by William Manchester. He also makes the case that Europe emerged from superstition because the Pope declared the world to be flat just as Magellan circumnavigated the globe, and the printing press permitted millions to learn about it. The age of myth and superstition was rapidly replaced by the Enlightenment. Update: as has been pointed out below, Manchester overstated his case. It was still an enjoyable read some 16 years ago, and I still agree with the idea that the printing press - by disseminating news and knowledge at speed - undermined the prevailing authority of the day.

Htsthbjig 12y ago
Thanks for the reference. I will buy it.
graeme 12y ago
Do you have a reference for that papal quote that you can link? I say this because I was under the strong impression no one believed the earth to be flat. Yet the myth persists, much to my annoyance. If you can't back that up, could you please remove it, to avoid spreading rumour? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth Of course, if a pope actually did say such a thing, I cheerfully withdraw my comment. Note: I just checked the amazon reviews of that book. They claim it is rife with error. http://www.amazon.com/World-Lit-Only-Fire-Renaissance/dp/0316545562#cm_cr_dpwidget http://www.amazon.com/World-Lit-Only-Fire-Renaissance/dp/031...
- Turukawa 12y ago
  I cited the book as reference ... I didn't claim anything else.
  - graeme 12y ago
    I'm suggesting that, if you can't find a reference on the internet, then the book is wrong, and you're helping spread the flat earth myth that is common in America.
hga 12y ago
Which Pope would that be? Wikipedia only mentions there was some sort of 8th Century controversy, but what little survives doesn't touch on the shape of the earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Middle_Ages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Middle_Ages Hard to imagine this wouldn't be mentioned. I also noticed the reviews and reception of A World Lit Only by Fire are scathing, and if what they cite is correct, appropriately so. It's my understanding its shape as a sphere was well accepted for a very long time, e.g. Wikipedia, citing a 1995 German PhD dissertation says "A recent study of medieval concepts of the sphericity of the Earth noted that 'since the eighth century, no cosmographer worthy of note has called into question the sphericity of the Earth.'" See further https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth or the book I just found, Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historians/dp/027595904X http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historia...), about how modern era "historians" created out of whole cloth the idea that it was thought to be flat back then. See the latter Wikipedia article over the issue with Columbus, which had to do with his incorrect estimation of the earth's circumference. If not for the convenient location of "the new world", he and his crews would have perished since he had the distance to the Far East off by a factor of 4. While his contemporaries weren't exactly sure of the circumference, they knew his voyage as envisioned would have ended in ruin.
V-2 12y ago
If I remember correctly, according to Umberto Eco the flat Earth myth (attributing this stance to catholic church) was made up by Darwinists in the heat of the debate over evolution theory. It wasn't true, but they'd throw everything in the kitchen sink at their opponent for propaganda purposes.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

Htsthbjig 12y ago

Thanks for the reference. I will buy it.

graeme 12y ago

Do you have a reference for that papal quote that you can link? I say this because I was under the strong impression no one believed the earth to be flat. Yet the myth persists, much to my annoyance. If you can't back that up, could you please remove it, to avoid spreading rumour? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth Of course, if a pope actually did say such a thing, I cheerfully withdraw my comment. Note: I just checked the amazon reviews of that book. They claim it is rife with error. http://www.amazon.com/World-Lit-Only-Fire-Renaissance/dp/0316545562#cm_cr_dpwidget http://www.amazon.com/World-Lit-Only-Fire-Renaissance/dp/031...

Turukawa 12y ago
I cited the book as reference ... I didn't claim anything else.
- graeme 12y ago
  I'm suggesting that, if you can't find a reference on the internet, then the book is wrong, and you're helping spread the flat earth myth that is common in America.

hga 12y ago

Which Pope would that be? Wikipedia only mentions there was some sort of 8th Century controversy, but what little survives doesn't touch on the shape of the earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Middle_Ages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Early_Middle_Ages Hard to imagine this wouldn't be mentioned. I also noticed the reviews and reception of A World Lit Only by Fire are scathing, and if what they cite is correct, appropriately so. It's my understanding its shape as a sphere was well accepted for a very long time, e.g. Wikipedia, citing a 1995 German PhD dissertation says "A recent study of medieval concepts of the sphericity of the Earth noted that 'since the eighth century, no cosmographer worthy of note has called into question the sphericity of the Earth.'" See further https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth or the book I just found, Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historians/dp/027595904X http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historia...), about how modern era "historians" created out of whole cloth the idea that it was thought to be flat back then. See the latter Wikipedia article over the issue with Columbus, which had to do with his incorrect estimation of the earth's circumference. If not for the convenient location of "the new world", he and his crews would have perished since he had the distance to the Far East off by a factor of 4. While his contemporaries weren't exactly sure of the circumference, they knew his voyage as envisioned would have ended in ruin.

V-2 12y ago

If I remember correctly, according to Umberto Eco the flat Earth myth (attributing this stance to catholic church) was made up by Darwinists in the heat of the debate over evolution theory. It wasn't true, but they'd throw everything in the kitchen sink at their opponent for propaganda purposes.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]