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If I recall from Linus Torvald's biography, he took advantage of his 8 years at university to write his first prototype of what would later become the Linux ker

by freyrs3 12y ago

If I recall from Linus Torvald's biography, he took advantage of his 8 years at university to write his first prototype of what would later become the Linux kernel. Sounds like the Finnish system liberated him to work to pursue important work without having to worry about basic economic concerns.

chrismeller 12y ago
I think we can all agree that Torvalds is the exception, not the rule. Plenty of people, especially those who are younger and don't have families, spend their evenings and weekends working on side projects after work. I don't really see a compelling argument in your point...
- DickingAround 12y ago
  I don't currently hold this opinion but I'll argue it for the sake of discovery: But what if all we need is the exceptions? Torvald's contribution is many times greater than a single regular person working. Perhaps the total value generated goes up as long as we find and win the exceptional cases like him?
  - chrismeller 12y ago
    Likewise, I don't know that I believe this, you just triggered a half-formed thought: The basis of this discussion was that everyone should be provided as much free education as they want with no qualifications. If we acknowledge that Torvalds' contribution is greater than that of a regular working person, aren't we shooting ourselves in the foot? If that's the case, then what argument can we make for subsidizing, say, a History degree? I know several people who have them and none of them are doing anything remotely related to the field. In that case it would seem that the education was unimportant (given the vaguely quantifiable criteria we've established), so why should we have paid for it?
- graeme 12y ago
  >Plenty of people, especially those who are younger and don't have families, spend their evenings and weekends working on side projects after work. I don't really see a compelling argument in your point... You haven't really responded to the argument. The question is not whether people spend time on side projects when working. Instead, the question is, would MORE people spend time on side projects with more school, and would they spend MORE time doing so? I had so much more free time in school. Though on the other hand I had no idea where to direct it.
  - chrismeller 12y ago
    Then you are much like the overwhelming majority of other university students, which I think makes my point for me. Torvalds is the exception, not the rule. He had an idea and the motivation and knowledge to turn it into life. Could he have done this if he'd had to pay for school? Could he have done it in 4 years, instead of 8? Could he have done it after work instead of after class? With the possible caveat that it may have taken a little longer, I'm willing to bet the answer is "yes" to all three. More importantly, to me at least, how many people do we let goof off for 8 years in the hopes of getting a fraction of a percent who are a Torvalds or a Bill Gates? Who, I'd like to remind everyone, dropped out of Harvard to start a company instead of sitting around doing it after class for the better part of a decade.
    - graeme 12y ago
      >Then you are much like the overwhelming majority of other university students, which I think makes my point for me. I'd say it's also true of the overwhelming majority of office workers too. I didn't start side projects when I had jobs. Everything flipped for me when I discovered entrepreneurship, and I just did it full time once that happened. We'd really need a study to settle this. Does the Finnish system lead to more tinkering on average?
      - chrismeller 12y ago
        > I'd say it's also true of the overwhelming majority of office workers too. Most definitely. But they have jobs, they're paying taxes, and they still have the ability to take on side-projects if they are so motivated and inclined. > I didn't start side projects when I had jobs. Everything flipped for me when I discovered entrepreneurship, and I just did it full time once that happened. Well then you took the Bill Gates model, so you kind of screwed the whole Torvalds argument anyway...
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  And how many opportunities do you have to provide to get a Linus? How many other Linuses are there whose work and contributions simply haven't been appreciated yet?

by freyrs3 12y ago

chrismeller 12y ago

I think we can all agree that Torvalds is the exception, not the rule. Plenty of people, especially those who are younger and don't have families, spend their evenings and weekends working on side projects after work. I don't really see a compelling argument in your point...

DickingAround 12y ago
I don't currently hold this opinion but I'll argue it for the sake of discovery: But what if all we need is the exceptions? Torvald's contribution is many times greater than a single regular person working. Perhaps the total value generated goes up as long as we find and win the exceptional cases like him?
- chrismeller 12y ago
  Likewise, I don't know that I believe this, you just triggered a half-formed thought: The basis of this discussion was that everyone should be provided as much free education as they want with no qualifications. If we acknowledge that Torvalds' contribution is greater than that of a regular working person, aren't we shooting ourselves in the foot? If that's the case, then what argument can we make for subsidizing, say, a History degree? I know several people who have them and none of them are doing anything remotely related to the field. In that case it would seem that the education was unimportant (given the vaguely quantifiable criteria we've established), so why should we have paid for it?
graeme 12y ago
>Plenty of people, especially those who are younger and don't have families, spend their evenings and weekends working on side projects after work. I don't really see a compelling argument in your point... You haven't really responded to the argument. The question is not whether people spend time on side projects when working. Instead, the question is, would MORE people spend time on side projects with more school, and would they spend MORE time doing so? I had so much more free time in school. Though on the other hand I had no idea where to direct it.
- chrismeller 12y ago
  Then you are much like the overwhelming majority of other university students, which I think makes my point for me. Torvalds is the exception, not the rule. He had an idea and the motivation and knowledge to turn it into life. Could he have done this if he'd had to pay for school? Could he have done it in 4 years, instead of 8? Could he have done it after work instead of after class? With the possible caveat that it may have taken a little longer, I'm willing to bet the answer is "yes" to all three. More importantly, to me at least, how many people do we let goof off for 8 years in the hopes of getting a fraction of a percent who are a Torvalds or a Bill Gates? Who, I'd like to remind everyone, dropped out of Harvard to start a company instead of sitting around doing it after class for the better part of a decade.
  - graeme 12y ago
    >Then you are much like the overwhelming majority of other university students, which I think makes my point for me. I'd say it's also true of the overwhelming majority of office workers too. I didn't start side projects when I had jobs. Everything flipped for me when I discovered entrepreneurship, and I just did it full time once that happened. We'd really need a study to settle this. Does the Finnish system lead to more tinkering on average?
    - chrismeller 12y ago
      > I'd say it's also true of the overwhelming majority of office workers too. Most definitely. But they have jobs, they're paying taxes, and they still have the ability to take on side-projects if they are so motivated and inclined. > I didn't start side projects when I had jobs. Everything flipped for me when I discovered entrepreneurship, and I just did it full time once that happened. Well then you took the Bill Gates model, so you kind of screwed the whole Torvalds argument anyway...
dredmorbius 12y ago
And how many opportunities do you have to provide to get a Linus? How many other Linuses are there whose work and contributions simply haven't been appreciated yet?