3 ms·

I think that the reality that is reflected here is that most game development moved overseas a long time ago for a reason. The indie games market is too crowded

by exelius 12y ago

I think that the reality that is reflected here is that most game development moved overseas a long time ago for a reason. The indie games market is too crowded, gamer willingness to pay is too low, and none of the skills required for developing an indie game are exceptionally hard to find. As such, indie game development rarely pays a living wage in the US. If you lived somewhere with a significantly lower cost of living, it might not be so bad.

benologist 12y ago
I don't think that's accurate at all. Most games, and startups, are just bad ideas that can't pay for employees and stuff. The problem isn't living expenses, that's just one number you need to reach. Developers who can't make money can't afford to make games as their occupation.
- exelius 12y ago
  It's not living expenses alone; I have worked for a company that does a significant amount of offshore hiring. The going rate for a competent developer in India is less than $20,000 per year. In India, $20k a year buys you a comfortable life. The equivalent salary in the US is probably $100k. The numbers in China are similar (though Chinese developers are harder to work with because their English tends to not be as good). Given this context, some of these "game dev fail" stories about making $20k from a year's worth of work suddenly turn into success stories. So imagine if you went and hired a hundred developers and started cranking out 10 games a month. Some would succeed, most would fail, but the failures can just be reskinned and sold again.
mjn 12y ago
Significantly lower cost of living, or better sources of early-stage funding. Some countries have started including games in their arts or film funding, which can be a viable source of initial funds (especially in countries where the arts funding is fairly large, relative to population). A lot of our students (I teach in a game program in Denmark) pay for the first 3-12 months of their indie studios that way. Those are typically $15k initial grants, and a possibility of around $100k-$200k follow-on funding towards production, if they're convinced it's worth funding at more than the seed level. Obviously that's not going to pay for an AAA game, but it gives indie developers some runway. The early funding for Playdead's Limbo [1] was through that route, for example, and then they sought commercial investors later. Here are this year's recipients: http://www.dfi.dk/Branche_og_stoette/Spilordningen/stoettede-spil-foraar-2014.aspx http://www.dfi.dk/Branche_og_stoette/Spilordningen/stoettede... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(video_game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(video_game)

by exelius 12y ago

benologist 12y ago

I don't think that's accurate at all. Most games, and startups, are just bad ideas that can't pay for employees and stuff. The problem isn't living expenses, that's just one number you need to reach. Developers who can't make money can't afford to make games as their occupation.

exelius 12y ago
It's not living expenses alone; I have worked for a company that does a significant amount of offshore hiring. The going rate for a competent developer in India is less than $20,000 per year. In India, $20k a year buys you a comfortable life. The equivalent salary in the US is probably $100k. The numbers in China are similar (though Chinese developers are harder to work with because their English tends to not be as good). Given this context, some of these "game dev fail" stories about making $20k from a year's worth of work suddenly turn into success stories. So imagine if you went and hired a hundred developers and started cranking out 10 games a month. Some would succeed, most would fail, but the failures can just be reskinned and sold again.

mjn 12y ago

Significantly lower cost of living, or better sources of early-stage funding. Some countries have started including games in their arts or film funding, which can be a viable source of initial funds (especially in countries where the arts funding is fairly large, relative to population). A lot of our students (I teach in a game program in Denmark) pay for the first 3-12 months of their indie studios that way. Those are typically $15k initial grants, and a possibility of around $100k-$200k follow-on funding towards production, if they're convinced it's worth funding at more than the seed level. Obviously that's not going to pay for an AAA game, but it gives indie developers some runway. The early funding for Playdead's Limbo [1] was through that route, for example, and then they sought commercial investors later. Here are this year's recipients: http://www.dfi.dk/Branche_og_stoette/Spilordningen/stoettede-spil-foraar-2014.aspx http://www.dfi.dk/Branche_og_stoette/Spilordningen/stoettede... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(video_game) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo_(video_game)