4 ms·

Yeah. Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries. I think my love of

by mbrock 12y ago

Yeah. Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries. I think my love of silence is a big part of the whole foundation for my political and spiritual leanings. I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways. And zazen, that speaks for itself. I know many Zen practitioners from Finland. They're all so lovely; I lack words. The whole aesthetic of Zen: lightning on a black sky; the moonshine reflecting in the lake; the far-off bird cry... It's all Finland. Compare all this to the typical open office. Why do we accept such painful environments? How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs? It chafes on me like a hairshirt.

fossuser 12y ago
Did you have any siblings close in age? Sometimes I wonder if that influences how people can handle commotion. I grew up with three little sisters close in age and between them and my mom literally nothing outside of that even registers as a blip on my radar. I also find that in very quiet environments I can get restless - all anecdotal, but made me wonder about it.
- mbrock 12y ago
  Yeah, my older brother is also quite "sensitive." We had to take the first bus out of Vienna because he couldn't handle it; it made him nauseous. There was a lot of quiet in our household, and we're both moderately introverted.
geekam 12y ago
> Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries True. I have been really trying to find a job that allows me to work remotely. I have an amazing setup at home, more like a sacred space but no job to use it for. > I know many Zen practitioners from Finland. How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there. > Why do we accept such painful environments? Some of us really do not have a choice. > How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs? Human beings do get used to and adjust in a new environment but I have seen the irritation in my colleagues and I know what's up with them. I believe it is the same thing as I have, just no private space which is crucial. Example: Someone at work lost their close family and we assume that it's all hunky-dory after we have offered condolences. But again, some of us just do not have a choice.
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  > How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there. The language would be the hardest part, and by that I mean really hard. Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Estonian, weirdly, also Hungarian) are, in my opinion, the most difficult languages in Europe.
enra 12y ago
I've been living in Bay Area for the past couple of years, and every time I go back home (Helsinki, Finland), first thing I notice how quiet it is. Even in the middle of the city, with people hustling around, its not noisy. Somehow the city streets, cars and people are quieter. Same with restaurants, you can actually have an conversation even with a larger table without yelling since everyone in the restaurant talks with a respectful volume. And you can live in a downtown apartment and hear absolutely no street noise during the day or night. The quiet times or less noisy places is one of the things I miss. In Bay Area you really need to look for it, to find a place with quietness which is usually far away from highways, roads and apparently people.
- mbrock 12y ago
  In California, you do have access to some pretty spectacular national parks and such, though, I suppose?
findjashua 12y ago
For some reason I have always associated Zen monasteries with Japan. I've never been there, but judging from shows/movies, the cities there (esp Tokyo) seem pretty noisy, and overstimulating in general. On the other hand, Scandinavia seems very calm and serene (exception - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). Anyone who's visited/lived in any of these places, is this an accurate portrayal?
- mbrock 12y ago
  Cities in Scandinavia aren't silent, but at least for me, I register a kind of silence that's somehow in the background. Especially with northerners. As you go south in Sweden, the backdrop of glacier-like serenity fades away and you start to feel the presence of a more European bustle. Zen is originally from ancient China, where I imagine there was quite a bit of silence. That's not to say the essence of Zen has anything to do with either silence or noise, but I think Zen culture was kind of steeped in rural silence.
eurleif 12y ago
>I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways. If communism is less noisy, it's because the state has forcibly silenced people. You can't hear them because they have a gun to their head. Don't forget that.
- crpatino 12y ago
  Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century. As a result, I have a hard time believing Communist cities were significantly less noisy. And while the gun to the head probably happened more than a few times, it's probably not relevant to this discussion.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. So far so good > As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century. Socialism is not a form of Communism, but the reverse. Other forms of Socialism besides Communism are in operational existence now, as well as being well attested in the historical record. And, while Communism's peak was in the late 20th Century, Capitalisms was in the late 19th Century; by the mid-20th Century the influence of Socialist critiques of capitalism had largely seen it replaced by either non-Communist Socialist systems or mixed systems which blended elements of capitalism with elements of socialism (Communism itself mostly took hold in places where capitalism had never firmly established itself.)
    - crpatino 12y ago
      Ok, I stand corrected. This is not at all what I remember from my highschool/uni_101 classes, but it was 20 years ago. I wonder what is your opinion on the similarities between American Capitalism vs USSR State Socialism during the cold war?

by mbrock 12y ago

fossuser 12y ago

Did you have any siblings close in age? Sometimes I wonder if that influences how people can handle commotion. I grew up with three little sisters close in age and between them and my mom literally nothing outside of that even registers as a blip on my radar. I also find that in very quiet environments I can get restless - all anecdotal, but made me wonder about it.

mbrock 12y ago
Yeah, my older brother is also quite "sensitive." We had to take the first bus out of Vienna because he couldn't handle it; it made him nauseous. There was a lot of quiet in our household, and we're both moderately introverted.

geekam 12y ago

> Or work remotely from places that respect the sublime power of silence, like certain public libraries, especially academic libraries True. I have been really trying to find a job that allows me to work remotely. I have an amazing setup at home, more like a sacred space but no job to use it for. > I know many Zen practitioners from Finland. How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there. > Why do we accept such painful environments? Some of us really do not have a choice. > How can some people be so comfortable in full-time office jobs? Human beings do get used to and adjust in a new environment but I have seen the irritation in my colleagues and I know what's up with them. I believe it is the same thing as I have, just no private space which is crucial. Example: Someone at work lost their close family and we assume that it's all hunky-dory after we have offered condolences. But again, some of us just do not have a choice.

pilsetnieks 12y ago
> How's the immigration of Finland? I might just move there. The language would be the hardest part, and by that I mean really hard. Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Estonian, weirdly, also Hungarian) are, in my opinion, the most difficult languages in Europe.

enra 12y ago

I've been living in Bay Area for the past couple of years, and every time I go back home (Helsinki, Finland), first thing I notice how quiet it is. Even in the middle of the city, with people hustling around, its not noisy. Somehow the city streets, cars and people are quieter. Same with restaurants, you can actually have an conversation even with a larger table without yelling since everyone in the restaurant talks with a respectful volume. And you can live in a downtown apartment and hear absolutely no street noise during the day or night. The quiet times or less noisy places is one of the things I miss. In Bay Area you really need to look for it, to find a place with quietness which is usually far away from highways, roads and apparently people.

mbrock 12y ago
In California, you do have access to some pretty spectacular national parks and such, though, I suppose?

findjashua 12y ago

For some reason I have always associated Zen monasteries with Japan. I've never been there, but judging from shows/movies, the cities there (esp Tokyo) seem pretty noisy, and overstimulating in general. On the other hand, Scandinavia seems very calm and serene (exception - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). Anyone who's visited/lived in any of these places, is this an accurate portrayal?

mbrock 12y ago
Cities in Scandinavia aren't silent, but at least for me, I register a kind of silence that's somehow in the background. Especially with northerners. As you go south in Sweden, the backdrop of glacier-like serenity fades away and you start to feel the presence of a more European bustle. Zen is originally from ancient China, where I imagine there was quite a bit of silence. That's not to say the essence of Zen has anything to do with either silence or noise, but I think Zen culture was kind of steeped in rural silence.

eurleif 12y ago

>I loathe capitalism because it's noisy in all kinds of ways. If communism is less noisy, it's because the state has forcibly silenced people. You can't hear them because they have a gun to their head. Don't forget that.

crpatino 12y ago
Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century. As a result, I have a hard time believing Communist cities were significantly less noisy. And while the gun to the head probably happened more than a few times, it's probably not relevant to this discussion.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Capitalism and Communism are not the only possible forms of human organization. So far so good > As a matter of fact, it can be argued that Capitalism and Socialism (the only kind of Communism for which there are historical records, AFAIK) are two competing and closely related patterns that happened to be dominant in the world during the second half of the 20th century. Socialism is not a form of Communism, but the reverse. Other forms of Socialism besides Communism are in operational existence now, as well as being well attested in the historical record. And, while Communism's peak was in the late 20th Century, Capitalisms was in the late 19th Century; by the mid-20th Century the influence of Socialist critiques of capitalism had largely seen it replaced by either non-Communist Socialist systems or mixed systems which blended elements of capitalism with elements of socialism (Communism itself mostly took hold in places where capitalism had never firmly established itself.)
  - crpatino 12y ago
    Ok, I stand corrected. This is not at all what I remember from my highschool/uni_101 classes, but it was 20 years ago. I wonder what is your opinion on the similarities between American Capitalism vs USSR State Socialism during the cold war?