4 ms·

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

IgorPartola 12y ago
So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? My first exposure to the Dune universe was actually the DOS game Dune II, which is funny since it had nothing to do with the storyline. Honestly, I found the game more enjoyable than the book.
- Amezarak 12y ago
  > Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? Yes. I'd say the "superheroes are bad" theme doesn't even come to its real fruition until God Emperor of Dune, especially as realized through the eyes of Duncan. But even in the context of Dune alone, I think you're missing the implications of Paul's ascension. In order to revenge himself on the Harkonnens and the Emperor, Paul had to ally himself with the Fremen. And to render the Freman united, effective allies, he had to make himself a religious figure. As a consequence, revealed in his prescient visions in Dune, Paul has unleashed a murderous Fremen-led jihad on the galaxy that will kill tens of billions. Dune Messiah and Children of Dune certainly go more in depth into what is discussed in the article though. This quote from the article particularly brings them to mind: This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader. But if you did not enjoy Dune, I am doubtful you will enjoy the sequels.
- aikah 12y ago
  > gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. That's not really what the story is about, it's more about politics and how religions are fabricated,for the sake of politics.Paul is neither the muadib nor the kwisatz haderach. I think the 2 immediate sequels are interesting,the books after them are unnecessary.
- the_af 12y ago
  Like others have said, Dune somewhat subverts the typical "hero's journey". Where in the template for this kind of story the reluctant kid grows up to be the Chosen One almost by chance, in Paul's case it's mostly engineered to be this way. The Bene Gesserit were growing and expecting this kind of Chosen One, it just didn't happen exactly how they wanted it. The Fremen accepted Paul as their Chosen One precisely because the Bene Gesserit had a program of artificial religions previously implanted in Arrakis and other difficult planets. Chance still played a role in Paul's story, though a smaller one than the usual. I think the careful engineering of the Prophecy that allows the protagonist to succeed is an important part of what makes Dune unique. Also, the emphasis on politics, and the crossover between feudal and SF tropes.
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    I gathered so much about his journey throughout the book, but the problem with this approach, to me, is that he doesn't really grow as a character. Paul gains new abilities, but his tone is the same at the beginning as it is at the end. No character really grows, it seems, except Feyd Rautha, which is kind of silly. > Also, the emphasis on politics, and the crossover between feudal and SF tropes. I wish there was more of an emphasis on this. The whole story is painted against a great backdrop of this struggle between the different houses, and the emperor. This is repeatedly mentioned and some story points rely on it, yet, there is no explanation as to how it came to be and how the system actually works. I also cannot help but see plot holes. For example, why does the emperor not take complete control of the spice production? Has nobody in the universe except for Paul figured out that whoever controls the spice, controls everything? That they can hold it hostage? Given, that everyone relies on the spice, why hasn't anyone but the Fremen figured out where it comes from? It seems that the spice has been a huge part of literally everything that the noble houses, the spacing guild, the Bene Gesserit, etc. do. Yet nobody bothered to look beyond the spice fields and actually figure out all the stuff that it turns out the Fremen already knew.
    - the_af 12y ago
      You have a point about Paul, though he arguably evolves in the following book. The Emperor doesn't take control of spice production partly because of the Landsraad, which exists precisely to keep the ruling House in check, and partly because of the Spacing Guild, which is arguably the true power behind the scenes. No House can truly do anything without the Spacing Guild because space travel is impossible without them. At the start of the Dune saga, the whole political universe depends on this equilibrium, which is strictly enforced. Navigators are, of course, aware of their dependence on the spice and of the importance of Arrakis. The Fremen and what they represent is ignored because of racism. This is also a point of the book. Nobody wants to see what's in front of them. This is especially shown from the point of view of the Harkonnen, which only slowly begin to realize the parallels between the Fremen and the imperial Sardaukar.

IgorPartola 12y ago

So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? My first exposure to the Dune universe was actually the DOS game Dune II, which is funny since it had nothing to do with the storyline. Honestly, I found the game more enjoyable than the book.

Amezarak 12y ago
> Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? Yes. I'd say the "superheroes are bad" theme doesn't even come to its real fruition until God Emperor of Dune, especially as realized through the eyes of Duncan. But even in the context of Dune alone, I think you're missing the implications of Paul's ascension. In order to revenge himself on the Harkonnens and the Emperor, Paul had to ally himself with the Fremen. And to render the Freman united, effective allies, he had to make himself a religious figure. As a consequence, revealed in his prescient visions in Dune, Paul has unleashed a murderous Fremen-led jihad on the galaxy that will kill tens of billions. Dune Messiah and Children of Dune certainly go more in depth into what is discussed in the article though. This quote from the article particularly brings them to mind: This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader. But if you did not enjoy Dune, I am doubtful you will enjoy the sequels.
aikah 12y ago
> gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. That's not really what the story is about, it's more about politics and how religions are fabricated,for the sake of politics.Paul is neither the muadib nor the kwisatz haderach. I think the 2 immediate sequels are interesting,the books after them are unnecessary.
the_af 12y ago
Like others have said, Dune somewhat subverts the typical "hero's journey". Where in the template for this kind of story the reluctant kid grows up to be the Chosen One almost by chance, in Paul's case it's mostly engineered to be this way. The Bene Gesserit were growing and expecting this kind of Chosen One, it just didn't happen exactly how they wanted it. The Fremen accepted Paul as their Chosen One precisely because the Bene Gesserit had a program of artificial religions previously implanted in Arrakis and other difficult planets. Chance still played a role in Paul's story, though a smaller one than the usual. I think the careful engineering of the Prophecy that allows the protagonist to succeed is an important part of what makes Dune unique. Also, the emphasis on politics, and the crossover between feudal and SF tropes.
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  I gathered so much about his journey throughout the book, but the problem with this approach, to me, is that he doesn't really grow as a character. Paul gains new abilities, but his tone is the same at the beginning as it is at the end. No character really grows, it seems, except Feyd Rautha, which is kind of silly. > Also, the emphasis on politics, and the crossover between feudal and SF tropes. I wish there was more of an emphasis on this. The whole story is painted against a great backdrop of this struggle between the different houses, and the emperor. This is repeatedly mentioned and some story points rely on it, yet, there is no explanation as to how it came to be and how the system actually works. I also cannot help but see plot holes. For example, why does the emperor not take complete control of the spice production? Has nobody in the universe except for Paul figured out that whoever controls the spice, controls everything? That they can hold it hostage? Given, that everyone relies on the spice, why hasn't anyone but the Fremen figured out where it comes from? It seems that the spice has been a huge part of literally everything that the noble houses, the spacing guild, the Bene Gesserit, etc. do. Yet nobody bothered to look beyond the spice fields and actually figure out all the stuff that it turns out the Fremen already knew.
  - the_af 12y ago
    You have a point about Paul, though he arguably evolves in the following book. The Emperor doesn't take control of spice production partly because of the Landsraad, which exists precisely to keep the ruling House in check, and partly because of the Spacing Guild, which is arguably the true power behind the scenes. No House can truly do anything without the Spacing Guild because space travel is impossible without them. At the start of the Dune saga, the whole political universe depends on this equilibrium, which is strictly enforced. Navigators are, of course, aware of their dependence on the spice and of the importance of Arrakis. The Fremen and what they represent is ignored because of racism. This is also a point of the book. Nobody wants to see what's in front of them. This is especially shown from the point of view of the Harkonnen, which only slowly begin to realize the parallels between the Fremen and the imperial Sardaukar.