6 ms·

Loss of neurons for sleep may explain why older adults suffer from insomnia

58 points by fraqed 12y ago

PeterWhittaker 12y ago
tl;dr - a neural basis for insomnia: "The new findings demonstrate for the first time that a group of inhibitory neurons are substantially diminished among the elderly and individuals with Alzheimer’s disease." Lack of the inhibitory neurons may prevent the brain from entering and maintaining sleep states.
- epaladin 12y ago
  Perhaps also highly correlated with anxiety disorders?
  - PeterWhittaker 12y ago
    Oooo, cool thought. I studied some psych recently and one of my biggest personal takeaways was amazement that nervous system works as well as it does for so many of us so much of the time, it is such a Goldbergian hackfest of spaghetti wiring and luck. That and reflex loops. Gotta love evolution.
crazypyro 12y ago
Is stay sleep grammatically incorrect? Seems like it should be "stay asleep", but I'm no English major.
- gliptic 12y ago
  "stay sleep" actually kind of means the opposite, as in they can't postpone sleep.
  - roeme 12y ago
    Interesting, I never encountered this phrase as well – is it dialect?
    - disputin 12y ago
      A stay of execution.
    - dmm 12y ago
      One of the definitions of stay is to stop something. So "I can't stay sleep." means "I can't stop sleep". Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet: V, iii: "..But he which bore my letter, Friar John, Was stay'd by accident, and yesternight Return'd my letter back. "
    - wavefunction 12y ago
      It's just an awkward/antiquated phrasing. "Stay" isn't used much anymore except for "stay of execution."
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        Also, "stay one's hand". Still rare and a bit antiquated, but occurs more frequently than "stay" in this sense more generally (... is my impression). For some data: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=stay+my+hand+%2B+stay+your+hand+%2B+stay+his+hand+%2B+stay+her+hand+%2B+stay+their+hands%2Cstay+of+execution&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%28stay%20my%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20your%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20his%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20her%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20their%20hands%29%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cstay%20of%20execution%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=stay+my+hand+%...
    - LukeShu 12y ago
      I (USA/Indiana) have mostly only encountered it in legal matters (recently: "Judge Young stayed today's order until ...").
- tormeh 12y ago
  If you were a God, you could stay a storm.
  - Domenic_S 12y ago
    Which would be to keep the storm at bay - but the article is talking about how old people DO keep sleep at bay, they DO "stay sleep"
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ern 12y ago
  Stay = delay in some contexts. But in the context of the OP's content about disrupted and fragmented sleep, it should probably be ''stay asleep'' as you say. Probably a typo or something.
- dang 12y ago
  You're right. Since the title is kind of baity anyway with its Upworthy 'this', we changed it (from "This could explain why older adults can't stay sleep") to the article's first sentence, truncated to fit.
- malvim 12y ago
  While we're at it, does "a loss of neurons for sleep" really make sense in this case? Sounded weird to me... Is someone really losing neurons FOR sleep? What does this mean? (Not criticizing, really. As a non-native English speaker, this sounded weird, but I might well be wrong. So I'm asking a genuine question, albeit with a "I think this might be wrong" tone)
  - serf 12y ago
    Yes, it makes sense. The article implies that there are losses of a specific neuron which resides in a specific part of the brain which is thought to control sleep. The neurons in this story are tasked with helping an individual sleep, thus the title 'Loss of neurons for sleep...' is correct. The neurons in this article are used by the individual FOR sleeping. I could understand someone interpreting it as a barter or trade. "I will give you these neurons FOR that sleep", however that's not intended. Perhaps "Loss of neurons (for sleep).." or "Loss of neurons which aid in sleep.." would be even more clear.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ams6110 12y ago
Or maybe they just have to wake up to pee.
electromagnetic 12y ago
The line that huanted me: “On average, a person in his 70s has about one hour less sleep per night than a person in his 20s". Since my son was born I average about 4 hours of sleep a night. I actually seem more high functioning on 2 hours than on the rare occasion I get 8 (I joke that my body assumes I'm dead and starts giving up). I have embraced one thing, something I never understood as a child, falling asleep on the couch. I get my best sleep between the time my wife puts a boring movie on and when she tells me to go to bed.
- Qantourisc 12y ago
  I often think it's because there is no pressure to sleep.
  - djtriptych 12y ago
    Interesting. I started crashing just wherever I fell asleep about a year ago. Now I'm realizing I can sleep through the night on almost any surface, without a blanket or pillow, and in a much wider range of temperatures. It's really nice feeling like you can sleep anywhere.
- noir_lord 12y ago
  I'm much same except I've had insomnia since my teens. Had a wisdom tooth out which meant no hot drinks and I've been falling asleep pretty much as soon as I shut my eyes which is awesome, I think I'm going to give caffeine up completely for a while and see if that helps.
- RyanMcGreal 12y ago
  Don't worry, you'll sleep again once your child is older.
  - electromagnetic 12y ago
    I will, because I'm only 26. I have friends who are in their late thirties with a newborn. They'll be rapidly moving into the age where sleep becomes a problem, right when their child stops disturbing their sleep (AKA when they're at college).
mililani 12y ago
I've noticed that a lot of people, including myself, don't suffer from insomnia with age, but the ability to sleep deeply for 7 to 8 hours. Nowadays, I average 6 hours of decent sleep, but, no matter how rested (or lack thereof), I get up and feel like crap throughout the day. I have NO problems, though, with falling asleep.
- rsync 12y ago
  All else being equal, exercise solves this problem. Do an hour or so of resistance training, mainly with your legs[1], and you'll sleep just fine. All else being equal. Alternatively, you can walk for 3-4 hours, which is actually a surprisingly enjoyable activity - especially in an urban environment. Look up the word "flaneur". [1] Squats or lunges (or leg press, if you must) for the biggest muscles in your legs, and calf raises, etc., for your calves, which are also quite large muscles.
  - tatalegma 12y ago
    Why does this work? Any scientific research backing this suggestion?
    - Domenic_S 12y ago
      > A study in the journal Sleep found that postmenopausal women who exercised for about three-and-a-half hours a week had an easier time falling asleep than women who exercised less often. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2012/July/8-secrets-to-a-good-nights-sleep http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Hea... I was told by my doc that the bipedal motion of walking helps our brain process problems but I haven't looked for any scholarly references on that. If true, that would help sleep too.
  - mililani 12y ago
    No ways. I exercise a lot. I run three times a week, sometimes up to 7 miles each run. I also do lots of weights. Exercising has never helped me to stay asleep. My wife is the same way too. And she exercises just as much as I do. A lot of people I know with similar sleeping problems to this have also said exercise hasn't helped them out.

58 points by fraqed 12y ago

tl;dr - a neural basis for insomnia: "The new findings demonstrate for the first time that a group of inhibitory neurons are substantially diminished among the elderly and individuals with Alzheimer’s disease." Lack of the inhibitory neurons may prevent the brain from entering and maintaining sleep states.

epaladin 12y ago
Perhaps also highly correlated with anxiety disorders?
- PeterWhittaker 12y ago
  Oooo, cool thought. I studied some psych recently and one of my biggest personal takeaways was amazement that nervous system works as well as it does for so many of us so much of the time, it is such a Goldbergian hackfest of spaghetti wiring and luck. That and reflex loops. Gotta love evolution.

crazypyro 12y ago

Is stay sleep grammatically incorrect? Seems like it should be "stay asleep", but I'm no English major.

gliptic 12y ago
"stay sleep" actually kind of means the opposite, as in they can't postpone sleep.
- roeme 12y ago
  Interesting, I never encountered this phrase as well – is it dialect?
  - disputin 12y ago
    A stay of execution.
  - dmm 12y ago
    One of the definitions of stay is to stop something. So "I can't stay sleep." means "I can't stop sleep". Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet: V, iii: "..But he which bore my letter, Friar John, Was stay'd by accident, and yesternight Return'd my letter back. "
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    It's just an awkward/antiquated phrasing. "Stay" isn't used much anymore except for "stay of execution."
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      Also, "stay one's hand". Still rare and a bit antiquated, but occurs more frequently than "stay" in this sense more generally (... is my impression). For some data: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=stay+my+hand+%2B+stay+your+hand+%2B+stay+his+hand+%2B+stay+her+hand+%2B+stay+their+hands%2Cstay+of+execution&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%28stay%20my%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20your%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20his%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20her%20hand%20%2B%20stay%20their%20hands%29%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cstay%20of%20execution%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=stay+my+hand+%...
  - LukeShu 12y ago
    I (USA/Indiana) have mostly only encountered it in legal matters (recently: "Judge Young stayed today's order until ...").
tormeh 12y ago
If you were a God, you could stay a storm.
- Domenic_S 12y ago
  Which would be to keep the storm at bay - but the article is talking about how old people DO keep sleep at bay, they DO "stay sleep"
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ern 12y ago
Stay = delay in some contexts. But in the context of the OP's content about disrupted and fragmented sleep, it should probably be ''stay asleep'' as you say. Probably a typo or something.
dang 12y ago
You're right. Since the title is kind of baity anyway with its Upworthy 'this', we changed it (from "This could explain why older adults can't stay sleep") to the article's first sentence, truncated to fit.
malvim 12y ago
While we're at it, does "a loss of neurons for sleep" really make sense in this case? Sounded weird to me... Is someone really losing neurons FOR sleep? What does this mean? (Not criticizing, really. As a non-native English speaker, this sounded weird, but I might well be wrong. So I'm asking a genuine question, albeit with a "I think this might be wrong" tone)
- serf 12y ago
  Yes, it makes sense. The article implies that there are losses of a specific neuron which resides in a specific part of the brain which is thought to control sleep. The neurons in this story are tasked with helping an individual sleep, thus the title 'Loss of neurons for sleep...' is correct. The neurons in this article are used by the individual FOR sleeping. I could understand someone interpreting it as a barter or trade. "I will give you these neurons FOR that sleep", however that's not intended. Perhaps "Loss of neurons (for sleep).." or "Loss of neurons which aid in sleep.." would be even more clear.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ams6110 12y ago

Or maybe they just have to wake up to pee.

electromagnetic 12y ago

The line that huanted me: “On average, a person in his 70s has about one hour less sleep per night than a person in his 20s". Since my son was born I average about 4 hours of sleep a night. I actually seem more high functioning on 2 hours than on the rare occasion I get 8 (I joke that my body assumes I'm dead and starts giving up). I have embraced one thing, something I never understood as a child, falling asleep on the couch. I get my best sleep between the time my wife puts a boring movie on and when she tells me to go to bed.

Qantourisc 12y ago
I often think it's because there is no pressure to sleep.
- djtriptych 12y ago
  Interesting. I started crashing just wherever I fell asleep about a year ago. Now I'm realizing I can sleep through the night on almost any surface, without a blanket or pillow, and in a much wider range of temperatures. It's really nice feeling like you can sleep anywhere.
noir_lord 12y ago
I'm much same except I've had insomnia since my teens. Had a wisdom tooth out which meant no hot drinks and I've been falling asleep pretty much as soon as I shut my eyes which is awesome, I think I'm going to give caffeine up completely for a while and see if that helps.
RyanMcGreal 12y ago
Don't worry, you'll sleep again once your child is older.
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  I will, because I'm only 26. I have friends who are in their late thirties with a newborn. They'll be rapidly moving into the age where sleep becomes a problem, right when their child stops disturbing their sleep (AKA when they're at college).

mililani 12y ago

I've noticed that a lot of people, including myself, don't suffer from insomnia with age, but the ability to sleep deeply for 7 to 8 hours. Nowadays, I average 6 hours of decent sleep, but, no matter how rested (or lack thereof), I get up and feel like crap throughout the day. I have NO problems, though, with falling asleep.

rsync 12y ago
All else being equal, exercise solves this problem. Do an hour or so of resistance training, mainly with your legs[1], and you'll sleep just fine. All else being equal. Alternatively, you can walk for 3-4 hours, which is actually a surprisingly enjoyable activity - especially in an urban environment. Look up the word "flaneur". [1] Squats or lunges (or leg press, if you must) for the biggest muscles in your legs, and calf raises, etc., for your calves, which are also quite large muscles.
- tatalegma 12y ago
  Why does this work? Any scientific research backing this suggestion?
  - Domenic_S 12y ago
    > A study in the journal Sleep found that postmenopausal women who exercised for about three-and-a-half hours a week had an easier time falling asleep than women who exercised less often. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Health_Watch/2012/July/8-secrets-to-a-good-nights-sleep http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Womens_Hea... I was told by my doc that the bipedal motion of walking helps our brain process problems but I haven't looked for any scholarly references on that. If true, that would help sleep too.
- mililani 12y ago
  No ways. I exercise a lot. I run three times a week, sometimes up to 7 miles each run. I also do lots of weights. Exercising has never helped me to stay asleep. My wife is the same way too. And she exercises just as much as I do. A lot of people I know with similar sleeping problems to this have also said exercise hasn't helped them out.