3 ms·

I really have a lot of trouble with this article. It seems that it's premised around the idea that there is a wide variety of Autistics, each with unique talent

by cbhl 12y ago

I really have a lot of trouble with this article. It seems that it's premised around the idea that there is a wide variety of Autistics, each with unique talents and skillsets, and that programs like those at SAP should hire and accommodate Autistics in additional roles, such as technical writing, communications and PR. But then the author also starts off with wide, sweeping statements about Autistics without citations or evidence: > Autism Speaks, an organization despised by most Autistics and many of their parents > many Autistics, myself included, liken [listing ASD in the DSM V] to homosexuality and transsexuality being listed in previous DSMs As I continue to read it, I start to wonder whether the author is just upset because they heard about SAP hiring Autistics and was disappointed that his/her skill set wasn't a good match for the role: > I would be a disaster in the coding and software testing departments, but would be more successful in a technical writing, communications and PR role I hope this isn't the case, but it's hard to say. I also imagine that it is a much easier sell for someone at SAP to say "we should hire Autistic developers" -- even though SAP would have to spend extra to train the people interacting with Autistic developers, that amount is dwarfed by the profitability of software developers in general. (The financially-relevant but non-tangible goodwill of hiring Autistics is just icing on the cake.) On the other hand, I feel like it'd be harder to convince higher-ups that hiring Autistics in other roles is at all worthwhile if they can't get through a neurotypical (unaccommodating) hiring process.

phaus 12y ago
>As I continue to read it, I start to wonder whether the author is just upset because they heard about SAP hiring Autistics and was disappointed that his/her skill set wasn't a good match for the role. When OP said "I would be a disaster in the coding and software testing departments, but would be more successful in a technical writing, communications and PR role", I interpreted it as a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies. People are really excited to help autistic people join the work force, but most of the efforts I see are directed at technical jobs. To be fair, quite a few autistic people are well-suited for technical roles. I myself happen to fit the stereotype.
- cbhl 12y ago
  It turns out that I can answer my question about the criticism of Autism Speaks by reading the author's own blog posts[0]. Judging from the author's bios[1][2], it appears that the author is an Autistic that writes. Given this context, I'm more inclined to interpret these words literally (i.e. as in, "it's unfair that SAP is willing to accommodate coding/testing Autistics but not me") than as a general example supporting "a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies". If you're looking at Autistics on a site called Hacker News, I suspect you're going to find more technical people than not. That doesn't mean you can generalize that to the general population of Autistics. [0] http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/my-autism-does-in-part-define-me-and-thats-how-i-like-it/ http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/my-a... [1] http://modelviewculture.com/authors/erika-lynn-abigail http://modelviewculture.com/authors/erika-lynn-abigail [2] http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/about/ http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/about/
  - phaus 12y ago
    >Judging from the author's bios[1][2], it appears that the author is an Autistic that writes. Given this context, I'm more inclined to interpret these words literally (i.e. as in, "it's unfair that SAP is willing to accommodate coding/testing Autistics but not me") than as a general example supporting "a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies". I am autistic. While either of us could be wrong, I think its pretty safe to say I have a better idea of what it means to be autistic than a person that isn't. You are basically saying that your interpretation of what he meant is based on the ridiculous assumption that we are incapable of making statements that aren't intended to be taken completely literally. If being autistic hadn't rendered me nearly immune to being offended, I'd probably be pretty upset about someone making such an ignorant statement. >If you're looking at Autistics on a site called Hacker News, I suspect you're going to find more technical people than not. That doesn't mean you can generalize that to the general population of Autistics. As a person with Asperger's that has two nephews with severe forms of autism, I assure you that my experience reading about autism is not limited to Hacker News. So basically, if I mention the simple fact that there is a stereotype about autistic people, I am attempting to generalize the population. However, at the same time its OK for you to make bigoted assumptions about a complaint that a person made without actually weighing it on its own merits. I can see how many reasonable people might end up disagreeing with the OP's claims. Unfortunately, you appear to be simply writing it off because he's autistic.
mpyne 12y ago
> On the other hand, I feel like it'd be harder to convince higher-ups that hiring Autistics in other roles is at all worthwhile if they can't get through a neurotypical (unaccommodating) hiring process. May not matter what higher-ups think in that regard (at least in the U.S.), as to be compliant with the ADA these companies would have to allow reasonable accomodations if necessary for the disability in question, even for the job interview process. If the job to be hired into doesn't require any further accomodation because it so precisely matches the skillset of the person involved, so much the better.
- cpwright 12y ago
  I would say that for some of the jobs mentioned, I can perfectly understand that an autistic could function at a high level (developer, tech writer, etc.). However, for an HR or PR job; I have a hard time believing that proper accommodations could be made that would allow them to function as well as someone with more social skills. When the job basically boils down to dealing with people, the vast majority of who will not be autistic; your ability to make eye contact, or be in social situations, is a defining characteristic of the role.
  - mpyne 12y ago
    That's fine. That would need to be one of the "bona fide occupational qualifications" contained in the job description for the job you're trying to hire for. For those jobs where the nature of the disability itself prevents someone from being able to accomplish those BFOQs then no accomodation is necessary, nor would you have to hire someone to fill that job. But I was referring to the hiring interview process itself, where it's completely possible to imagine that some assistance would be necessary even though, if hired, the autistic person would be able to complete their job requirements with only reasonable accomodations. Likewise you don't need to provide unreasonable/super costly accomodations. But you can't just ignore ADA either.

by cbhl 12y ago

phaus 12y ago

>As I continue to read it, I start to wonder whether the author is just upset because they heard about SAP hiring Autistics and was disappointed that his/her skill set wasn't a good match for the role. When OP said "I would be a disaster in the coding and software testing departments, but would be more successful in a technical writing, communications and PR role", I interpreted it as a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies. People are really excited to help autistic people join the work force, but most of the efforts I see are directed at technical jobs. To be fair, quite a few autistic people are well-suited for technical roles. I myself happen to fit the stereotype.

cbhl 12y ago
It turns out that I can answer my question about the criticism of Autism Speaks by reading the author's own blog posts[0]. Judging from the author's bios[1][2], it appears that the author is an Autistic that writes. Given this context, I'm more inclined to interpret these words literally (i.e. as in, "it's unfair that SAP is willing to accommodate coding/testing Autistics but not me") than as a general example supporting "a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies". If you're looking at Autistics on a site called Hacker News, I suspect you're going to find more technical people than not. That doesn't mean you can generalize that to the general population of Autistics. [0] http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/my-autism-does-in-part-define-me-and-thats-how-i-like-it/ http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/my-a... [1] http://modelviewculture.com/authors/erika-lynn-abigail http://modelviewculture.com/authors/erika-lynn-abigail [2] http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/about/ http://apoststructuralautistic.wordpress.com/about/
- phaus 12y ago
  >Judging from the author's bios[1][2], it appears that the author is an Autistic that writes. Given this context, I'm more inclined to interpret these words literally (i.e. as in, "it's unfair that SAP is willing to accommodate coding/testing Autistics but not me") than as a general example supporting "a concern about autistic people being typecast as techies". I am autistic. While either of us could be wrong, I think its pretty safe to say I have a better idea of what it means to be autistic than a person that isn't. You are basically saying that your interpretation of what he meant is based on the ridiculous assumption that we are incapable of making statements that aren't intended to be taken completely literally. If being autistic hadn't rendered me nearly immune to being offended, I'd probably be pretty upset about someone making such an ignorant statement. >If you're looking at Autistics on a site called Hacker News, I suspect you're going to find more technical people than not. That doesn't mean you can generalize that to the general population of Autistics. As a person with Asperger's that has two nephews with severe forms of autism, I assure you that my experience reading about autism is not limited to Hacker News. So basically, if I mention the simple fact that there is a stereotype about autistic people, I am attempting to generalize the population. However, at the same time its OK for you to make bigoted assumptions about a complaint that a person made without actually weighing it on its own merits. I can see how many reasonable people might end up disagreeing with the OP's claims. Unfortunately, you appear to be simply writing it off because he's autistic.

mpyne 12y ago

> On the other hand, I feel like it'd be harder to convince higher-ups that hiring Autistics in other roles is at all worthwhile if they can't get through a neurotypical (unaccommodating) hiring process. May not matter what higher-ups think in that regard (at least in the U.S.), as to be compliant with the ADA these companies would have to allow reasonable accomodations if necessary for the disability in question, even for the job interview process. If the job to be hired into doesn't require any further accomodation because it so precisely matches the skillset of the person involved, so much the better.

cpwright 12y ago
I would say that for some of the jobs mentioned, I can perfectly understand that an autistic could function at a high level (developer, tech writer, etc.). However, for an HR or PR job; I have a hard time believing that proper accommodations could be made that would allow them to function as well as someone with more social skills. When the job basically boils down to dealing with people, the vast majority of who will not be autistic; your ability to make eye contact, or be in social situations, is a defining characteristic of the role.
- mpyne 12y ago
  That's fine. That would need to be one of the "bona fide occupational qualifications" contained in the job description for the job you're trying to hire for. For those jobs where the nature of the disability itself prevents someone from being able to accomplish those BFOQs then no accomodation is necessary, nor would you have to hire someone to fill that job. But I was referring to the hiring interview process itself, where it's completely possible to imagine that some assistance would be necessary even though, if hired, the autistic person would be able to complete their job requirements with only reasonable accomodations. Likewise you don't need to provide unreasonable/super costly accomodations. But you can't just ignore ADA either.