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> the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. By whom? In particular, are there any ratings of American versus European universitie

> the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. By whom? In particular, are there any ratings of American versus European universities by people who have experience of both? I only have experience of the latter; from what I've heard from Americans talking about their university experience, it sounds markedly inferior.

Turing_Machine 12y ago
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki...
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  Another: http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2013 http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-uni... Both of these organizations are British.
  - Turing_Machine 12y ago
    Here's one done by Jiao Tong University in Shanghai: http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html The exact ranking varies, of course, but the trend is clear. The top U.S. universities (and the top U.K. universities) outrank everyone else. ETH Zurich does pretty well, but doesn't make the top ten on any list.
- rwallace 12y ago
  Okay, taking a look at the criteria they say they use. Most of the weight is on research. Fair enough. I'm prepared to believe that conclusion, at least as an overall tendency. However, the context of the discussion was education, and that's the context in which I'm disputing the basis of the claim of superiority of American universities. Of the fraction of the weight placed on quality of teaching, a significant chunk goes on 'perceived prestige' which obviously begs the question. A small chunk goes on student/teacher ratio, which is a weak indicator; in particular, its behavior is more threshold than monotonic (i.e. you don't want it to be too high, but there's no real advantage in having it remarkably low). And a chunk goes on total budget per teacher, which is a positively perverse criterion and tends to substantiate the stories I've heard about the level of waste in American universities. So that's the 'world university rankings'. Moral of that story: when you see an official looking table that seems to support a controversial conclusion, look carefully at where the data comes from.
  - Turing_Machine 12y ago
    The U.S. system has both research universities and teaching colleges. Some institutions are both (e.g., Harvard), but many are one or the other. >when you see an official looking table that seems to support a controversial conclusion I've presented some data. If you have contrary data, present it. Otherwise it's just your opinion, no? I mean, you dispute the metrics they use, but don't provide any of your own. What would be a better measure of the quality of teaching?
    - buckbova 12y ago
      Are you trying to get someone on the internet to admit that they are wrong? I applaud the effort. Here are upvotes.
  - rwallace 12y ago
    (Sibling comment since it's not giving me a 'reply' link for some reason) To be clear, I'm not claiming European universities are better for education (as opposed to research) than American ones. I only have experience of the former, so I'm not in a position to make that claim. I'm merely disputing the reverse claim. I'm saying unless we can find accounts from people who have experience of both, the correct position to take is an agnostic one.

Turing_Machine 12y ago

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki...

Turing_Machine 12y ago
Another: http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2013 http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-uni... Both of these organizations are British.
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  Here's one done by Jiao Tong University in Shanghai: http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html The exact ranking varies, of course, but the trend is clear. The top U.S. universities (and the top U.K. universities) outrank everyone else. ETH Zurich does pretty well, but doesn't make the top ten on any list.
rwallace 12y ago
Okay, taking a look at the criteria they say they use. Most of the weight is on research. Fair enough. I'm prepared to believe that conclusion, at least as an overall tendency. However, the context of the discussion was education, and that's the context in which I'm disputing the basis of the claim of superiority of American universities. Of the fraction of the weight placed on quality of teaching, a significant chunk goes on 'perceived prestige' which obviously begs the question. A small chunk goes on student/teacher ratio, which is a weak indicator; in particular, its behavior is more threshold than monotonic (i.e. you don't want it to be too high, but there's no real advantage in having it remarkably low). And a chunk goes on total budget per teacher, which is a positively perverse criterion and tends to substantiate the stories I've heard about the level of waste in American universities. So that's the 'world university rankings'. Moral of that story: when you see an official looking table that seems to support a controversial conclusion, look carefully at where the data comes from.
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  The U.S. system has both research universities and teaching colleges. Some institutions are both (e.g., Harvard), but many are one or the other. >when you see an official looking table that seems to support a controversial conclusion I've presented some data. If you have contrary data, present it. Otherwise it's just your opinion, no? I mean, you dispute the metrics they use, but don't provide any of your own. What would be a better measure of the quality of teaching?
  - buckbova 12y ago
    Are you trying to get someone on the internet to admit that they are wrong? I applaud the effort. Here are upvotes.
- rwallace 12y ago
  (Sibling comment since it's not giving me a 'reply' link for some reason) To be clear, I'm not claiming European universities are better for education (as opposed to research) than American ones. I only have experience of the former, so I'm not in a position to make that claim. I'm merely disputing the reverse claim. I'm saying unless we can find accounts from people who have experience of both, the correct position to take is an agnostic one.